Good Intentions burned battlefield or heals in a few days

[Chuck]

So one of the reasons I held off plastic junk removal was because I read GIs many depressing reports of removal. With his years long recovery periods and his “burned battlefields” describing areas of the tissue scarred by removal. When I spoke with Dr B however he advised that he was shaving only small amounts of tissue during removal. Other removal patients advised that this tissue grows back quickly. Dr towfigh also reports that minimal tissue is removed. So who is right? My removal was quite smooth. Though i remain bad cpps symptoms. I am sure cpps was triggered by the plastic garbage so it had to come out. But I wonder about the tissue left behind. And the condition it is in now. Stopped trusting much of what Gi says. But curious if others have an opinion.

[Watchful]

I don’t have experience with removal, so no opinion, but did Dr. B suggest any imaging after the surgery, such as an ultrasound?

Have your urinary symptoms improved?

[MarkT]

You’re asking for opinions that are going to be rather meaningless…

How can anyone on this forum (including the surgeons) offer an educated opinion when they don’t know what your mesh and tissue looked like prior to removal, what the removal surgery entailed, what the current state of your tissue looks like, etc?

Your questions should be directed to Dr. B, as he is the only person who can answer them as they pertain to your unique situation.

[Chuck]

Mark T. I am just tying to determine the consensus regarding the status of tissue after removal. Other removal patients might weigh in. Dr T says not much tissue is removed. Same for Dr B. He said he just shaved it off. And other patients have advised that tissue regrows quickly. Perennial board depressive GI suggested that the tissue is forever destroyed and we will suffer from adhesions etc. I was looking fir a more positive spin. Why don’t you stick to the shouldice stuff. Ignore the studies showing significant chronic pain from that clinic. Ignore all the negative reviews posted on the shouldice site and ignore the comments of three doctors I vistrd saying they had treated patients for chronic pain that went to shouldice. We patients have to stick together if you sit here and pump the Shouldice clinic while ignoring a lot of the information that suggests that they struggle with a much higher chronic pain rate than they are reporting then you are doing a disservice to this page. If I can find it I will post the journal of a Shouldice patient who is still experiencing chronic pain three years after his operation. There are very few good choices here as for me I will go see Dr. Kang if I reherniate

[MarkT]

Chuck, chronic pain numbers may be underreported across the board, not just at Shouldice. Historically there has been inadequate long-term follow up, chronic pain definitions and measures have varied, and some patients may go elsewhere when they have a problem rather than returning to their original surgeon, further complicating getting accurate numbers.

I’m not here to “pump Shouldice” and I’m not ignoring anything…but I do believe that when done by expert surgeons it is one of the best options out there, especially as a 1st option instead of mesh. Since I had two flawless repairs done there myself, so I can also offer some insight into the experience. I’m also going to respond when you post junk about it (or other repairs), because you don’t accurately communicate research results or put them into proper context.

You need to remember that no one has a 0% chronic pain rate…and HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of repairs have been done at Shouldice over the years…so *of course* you will find people with chronic pain who went to Shouldice and *of course* you are going to find other surgeons who have treated Shouldice patients. You seem to think that means something bad, when statistically that is *expected*. =

Dr. Belyansky, Dr. Towfigh, Dr. Kang, etc. will all have patients with problems too because they don’t have a 0% rate either (didn’t someone here experience a post-op complication after a Kang repair?). You won’t see nearly as many ‘bad reviews’ because they have not done HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of repairs at their clinics.

There are still good choices for us here, but even the best choices are not risk-free and they likely all have underreported some post-op complications…and when *so* many hernia repairs are done each year in total, even ‘small’ recurrence and pain rates mean that there will still be a lot of people out there who experience problems.

[Watchful]

@markt

Do you feel 100% normal with these repairs? No pain, twinges, numbness, tightness, stiffness, discomfort, etc.?

[MarkT]

Yes, 100% normal…zero problems.

The first one was 30yrs ago, the other side was done about 18yrs ago. I’ve never noticed anything while playing tennis, doing yoga, swimming, weight lifting, walking/running, etc.

If I remember correctly, after the first one I would occasionally get a twinge of pain, but that was entirely gone in a relatively short period of time afterwards (a month? it’s been a long time, so I can’t be sure).

[Watchful]

@markt

That is great to hear. It’s good to know that this procedure is capable of providing such perfect results, and that it has done so well for you for so many years.

Do you know if your hernias were direct or indirect?

[Watchful]

Chronic pain/discomfort was swept under the rug and ignored for many years with a focus on recurrence instead. This applies to both mesh and tissue repair.

[William Bryant]

I think it’s been claimed that the chance of chronic pain is more likely if pain is present before surgery.

Surely most people who have surgery will have had some symptoms prior leading to deciding on surgery.

It would be interesting to know if studies and research asked if pain was present prior to surgery?

[Author]

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