Good Intentions -Mesh Removal
02/07/2022 at 7:22 am #30524
Brother good intentions…can you comment on your mesh removal procedure…its is rare to find someone who has successful removal of bilateral Ingunial mesh…those surgeries can be a real disaster for the patients. So would love to hear a more detailed assessment of your experience. Happy to DM you if you like. I had the same surgery as you did and deeply regret it.
02/07/2022 at 9:20 am #30526
I have posted several times on the forum about it. I’ll link to one of them below. I am still not back to what I would consider completely healed. The tissues and structures of my lower abdomen and groins is still tight and malformed and still get sore after certain activities, like extended walks or running or lifting items over my head. Still not right.
I would not have mesh removed unless you have problems or unless you can reasonably predict that your chance of having problems in the future is high. Some materials and/or devices designs seem to be more likely to cause problems, and the activities that you engage in play a big part also. Try to live with it but be aware of how things are progressing. Some people seem to do okay, although it is hard to find many stories from those people.
When you say you had the same as me do you mean materials (Bard Soft Mesh) via TEP, or just bilateral laparoscopic?
02/07/2022 at 11:22 am #30527
Good intentions….Bard 3d max mesh Lap Tep…experienced surgeon…its funny that we both tried to do everything right and instead did everything exactly wrong…lap mesh TEP is almost exactly what not to do….i do have issues…but wonder if they warrant the risks of removal….but i feel like i have a time bomb inside me….if the issues are minor now….will they stay that way…i may live another 20 years
02/07/2022 at 11:54 am #30528
damn…your story is not a good one good..we were such fools to get duped into mesh…it really was a life altering decision.Why do you say try to live with it…it would seem to make sense to get it remaoved as soon as possible as massive inflammation will continue to smolder year in and year out…
02/07/2022 at 12:30 pm #30529
It’s just not clear who will have problems, or why. The mesh industry seems fine with not knowing and does not even do anything about the known problem materials, like the plugs. All of the big mesh makers still sell a plug product even though the Guidelines that the two biggest mesh makers sponsored recommend against its use. The easiest and simplest effort to make things better and nothing has happened at all.
I think that sedentary people, those who are not very active, just walking to their car to drive to work and sit at a desk, might be okay with mesh. Active people, athletes especially, probably manual laborers, who engage in rigorous activity every day, probably have more problems since some of the irritation is probably mechanical in addition to biochemical. Plastic fibers rubbing on local tissue during physical motion.
I think that you just need to look at what you do and try to figure out your odds. The 3D products are known to ball up since they are already partially folded, but in my case, even the side that was flat and perfectly placed caused problems.
Could you share the story of how you got your hernia and the path that led you to the operating room for a mesh implantation? Many people have found the forum because they were trying to decide what to do about their hernia.
There is a forum member who had his mesh removed within months of implantation because he just could not stand the feeling of the mesh in his body. I don’t know how things turned out for him in the long run, he wanted to move on from the bad experience once he got the mesh removed. He might respond to a query, I’ll post his screen name if I can find it.
02/07/2022 at 12:47 pm #30530
thanks good intentions…any chance you can chat live by phone…i made the mistake of a lifetime here…and i did study the issue closely before deciding…i just had a bilateral hernia and thought that it would be too much tissue trauma to have two open no mesh surgeries…i worried about chronic groin pain…i did SILS…so i had no scarring either….i am fanatical about my health so this decision is causing me massive stress and i want to fix it….happy to chat live at your convenience
02/07/2022 at 1:36 pm #30531
I hang out on the forum mainly to spread the word that things in the hernia repair field are not as rosy as they seem after a visit to a typical hernia repair surgeon. Trying to collect and disperse solid scientific information and show the voids where it can’t be found. Also to try to understand how things got this way, with the huge corporate influence that is common around the world.
I also did much research before choosing to have mesh implanted in 2014. I thought that it was just not possible that the medical professionals would allow the problems to continue, that they “must” have solved them by now (2014). So, with the advice of a good friend, a surgeon who had had his own hernia repaired (open with mesh) years before, I chose what I chose. I trusted the system.
Your story, now, 7 + years later, shows that nothing has changed. Anyone going to their doctor with a hernia runs a very significant chance (5-30% depending on sources of information and definitions) of getting a poor result from the repair. I think that everyone, including the doctors that refer to the surgeons, and the surgeons, and all of the auxiliary people that provide care along the way, are being damaged by the continuation of this. I’m on the soapbox again about the dehumanization of healthcare.
Anyway, I like to keep things out in the open forum so that anyone can participate. If you do decide to definitely have the mesh removed I can try to contact Dr. Billing to see if he is still involved in this area.
02/07/2022 at 2:44 pm #30532ajm222Participant
Re: active people having issues – I know plenty of very active people who have mesh and no issues. It may definitely be the case that some people have issues because they’re younger and more active, but I don’t know that that’s a primary cause for the number of mesh issues that are seen.
02/07/2022 at 5:19 pm #30533
So guys is it too late to reset the clocK??? pull the mesh and start again? i cant believe this crap is not only still legal but heavily used in most of the world. I am planning to end my life because of this crap mesh…so maybe its worth swining for the fences on a removal
02/08/2022 at 5:27 am #30537William BryantParticipant
What issues is it causing you Chuck? If we know how bad we can probably advise better.
If they are bad enough side effects to cause or even think of self termination then they must be really bad. But if it’s just mild and a general anti feeling about mesh, I’d wait personally. Not only because the removal surgery itself is as risky pretty much as all surgery is, there is chance of improvement in techniques and procedures.
I know how you must feel as I got details about right to die organisations when I discovered my hernia and read about surgery, both mesh and non mesh. But the hernia doesn’t trouble me very much so I am delaying surgery. Over time my mental state has improved. I sincerely hope yours does as it is a horrible place for any person to be.
Best wishes to you.
02/08/2022 at 5:38 am #30538ajm222Participant
definitely not too late. that will be a decision between you and the surgeon you end up choosing. he or she may reasonably want you to wait a little longer to see if you see improvement. 6 months really is still a little early. or maybe not. but i have definitely seen people who have seen improvement at one year and also 18 months. not everyone is 100% back to normal at 6 months. they SHOULD be, but they aren’t. perhaps describing the issues in more detail would help determine if they’re candidates for improvement.
if your surgeon checks out your images and believes your symptoms might be improved with removal, and thinks he or she can safely remove the mesh, then it’s definitely an option. recovery can be long (though after a week or two you’d be past the worst of it), and ultimate outcomes are variable, but you’d have the mesh out and wouldn’t have to worry about that anymore. And you’d be unlikely to at least immediately have any new hernias. And you should have the option to get open tissue repairs in the future if needed to strengthen the area and/or fix recurrences. it’s not the ideal scenario, but it’s possible. I had my mesh removed and at least at the moment I can say that as bad as having the mesh has been, I currently don’t have a hernia anymore. i wouldn’t advise having a hernia fixed by placing mesh and then removing it later, but it served it’s purpose, at least for the time being.
the idea is that the body eventually encapsulates the mesh and the inflammatory process evolves and settles down to a point where there is basically a stasis. some will say that over decades the body of course will continue to attack it on a very low level (like water against rock), but most of us won’t live long enough for any major problems to occur. theoretically. and there clearly have been folks with mesh for decades now, though who knows how they are doing. i have read stories from folks on non-hernia forums who had mesh surgery 20 or more years ago and they have zero issues. so anything is possible.
i’d say you’re in the very early stages of regret, realizing you have an implant and learning about all the possible complications. i think this happens for a lot of people, even those without problems. surgeons see it all the time. it’s not uncommon for people to want to remove mesh 6-12 months after getting it because they freak out one day when they start thinking about the mesh and/or stumble on a forum like this. but most of those people will probably be ok for the remainder of their days with the mesh.
it’s a mental thing to reckon with. but if you are in fact having issues, just look into them and see if there’s anything clearly wrong and find out from the professionals if they have any thoughts or suggestions. not a regular surgeon as they rarely are any help. but one with much removal experience. they can tell you if you have cause for concern, and can remove the mesh if needed or if you want.
02/09/2022 at 4:42 am #30541
Thanks all for your responses….I am full of remorse about my catastrophic decision on my hernia fix and on the surgeon i selected….I thought i did a lot of research…but sometimes the research can lead you in the exactly wrong direction…I blame Dr. Towfigh for her constant undermining of tissue repairs and her promotion of laproscopic surgery as the gold standard….my focus was on avoiding tissue damage and chronic pain…so when she was quoting all these stats about lap TEP mesh being the lowest recurrance rate and the lowest risk for chronic pain…i went in that direction…I picked a surgeon who had performed 5000 procedures…though he may well have been a liar and a bragger…but the botton line is i later learned…and could have learned this througb hours more research…that lap TEP is one of the most invasive and problematic procedures there is….its very destructive of tissues under the surface…my entire abodominal core has been destroyed by plastic junk to fix a tiny hole that is nowhere near the abdomen…now i face an uncertain future with 48 inches square of plastic buried inside me…this was the classic case of losing site of the forest for the trees…i didnt believe tissue repairs would last…and i believed they were likely to cause chronic groin pain…when the exact opposite was true….I guess i am still hoping for a chance to reverse all this…but it looks like its not to be…
02/09/2022 at 4:44 am #30542
William bryant….i DMd you…would love to chat offline if you are willing
02/10/2022 at 1:14 pm #30553William BryantParticipant
I’ve replied Chuck.
But bit late as only just seen message
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