Mike M- Good intentions question
04/20/2022 at 9:51 am #31457ChuckParticipant
Mike…thanks for following up with Dr Kang on his ability to fix a hernia after mesh removal….i am glad you had a good experience…depressed in a way because had i only known about this guy prior to my surgery i would have gone there too. I like to think i helped you in some way by dissuading you from that tool grishkan…and suggesting kang…I am now contemplating mesh removal thanks to constant burning urinary pain that uros keep telling me i unrelated to uro problems but would travel to kang if there was a recuurancce—-he is getting up in years though and i wonder how much longer he works…doesnt he have a son that is taking up the practice?…Good Intentions…i know i keep striking out with you…but can you tell me what you think my prospects are for getting a good and safe removal of Bard 3d max double inguinal mesh…i have spoken extensivley to marc tucker…nick schiller…luke yamaguchi and Grant Goode…all had relatively safe and easy removals…tough surgeries but surgeries wihtout longterm negative effects…i think you would include yourself in that category…obviously it took a year or more for you to recover…but from what i read you didnt have a lot of bad side effects from the removal itself and are now mostly back to normal??? though i keep reading your posts saying people should not expect much from removal…i still think my case may have a postive outcome…since i mainly suffer from urinary pain…nick schiller told he his urinary issues resolved promptly after removal…and the thought is if you bet the mesh out earlier its better before it migrates or disintegrates etc…any thoughts appreciated…though i know you dont like to share much…which is sad…as you are clearly one of the smartest and most well informed posters…marc and nick are just a young punks…but they both have hearts of gold and they have spoken to me extensively to provide guidance and support…you can do a lot of good with your knowledge so hope you will share…if i ever get better i will do the same…
04/20/2022 at 10:26 am #31458Mike MParticipant
The input you provided was definitely taken into serious consideration regarding Dr. Kang. Specifically your personal experience inspired me to dig further into the details of each particular procedure. I would like to think I would have had a positive experience with Dr. Grischkan as he was my #2 choice. My biggest concern with Shouldice was repairing a perfectly intact, undamaged, inguinal ring as standard practice along with the removal of up to 50% of the Cremaster muscle. I suspect the recovery would have been more challenging and even though some patients claim the Cremaster point is no big deal, it is actually a big deal.
Dr. Kang could continue on for many years with continued success if he chooses to do so. Quite normal age for an experienced surgeon of his caliber at the top his game. He does have a son who also does the procedure at the hospital and will be continuing his legacy when he retires.
04/20/2022 at 11:00 am #31463ChuckParticipant
Mike m thanks….i really appreciate it when others take the time to respond here…if only i had seen your testimonial before i went the idiotic lap tep mesh route…but most of my tissue is still intact…and i am wondering whether i can take out the mesh and just start again this time with kang. I stayed away from open repairs because i kept reading that folks who had gotten shouldice and desarda had pain even years after…and this was from positive testimonials…I am 18 months from my shouldice repair yada yada,..and i still get periodic pain when i lift something yada yada…so i am curious about your pain experience with kang….are you completely back to normal…no weird twinges…or occasional pain…I suspect that you will still have some periodic pain for up to a year…if my experience tracks. If you were me…would you gamble on a removal…i have urinary buring issues that are not urological and suspect the mesh is playing a role somehow…prob makes sense to get it out anyway given the longterm risks..of 3d bard max, I wish i had read the tea leaves better…kang is only more recently getting a lot of traction…though i am certain if i had ruled out mesh i almost certainly would have gone to kang based on the small incision size…for a direct hernia he is saying the incision size should be 2 inches…does yours track that or is it larger? Mike again thanks so much for you help…i wish good intentions was as forthcoming with info as he has a lot of good stuff…
04/20/2022 at 12:00 pm #31464Good intentionsParticipant
Chuck, I don’t think that people should expect immediate relief after mesh removal. Plan for a long recovery time. If it happens faster, great, if it doesn’t, just accept the slow progress.
I am not sure how Dr. Kang could remove laparoscopically placed mesh, bilateral, better than a laparoscopic surgeon could. Removal from the front would require working through a very small opening, reaching across the abdomen to the midline, which is where today’s surgeons place it. The peritoneum needs to be peeled from the mesh and then closed properly to avoid adhesions. One of the pieces of mesh was probably placed over an area that had no hernia. An opening would have to be created to reach it from the outside. Dr. Petersen creates a large opening when he removes laparoscopically placed mesh. I think that laparoscopy might be the best way to have your mesh removed. I don’t know what Dr. Kang’s opinion is about that.
In your case, it seems reasonable to assume that you would get at least close to where you were when you had the hernia. Unless neurectomy was done prophylactically when the mesh was placed. I can’t remember how closely you studied your surgery notes. There might be some clues there.
But only you know what you’re feeling. As I’ve said before, in my case I could actually feel the mesh inside my body. Surgeons cringe when they hear that because they are taught that that’s impossible. But I could feel it and I could feel what it was doing to the surrounding tissues and all of the data pointed to the mesh as the causes of my problems. Your case seems not so clear.
If you do choose a laparoscopic surgeon make sure that they do not do neurectomies as a possible way to relieve pain. You don’t seem to have those kinds of problems.
04/20/2022 at 1:01 pm #31465Mike MParticipant
This is what I can tell you only two weeks into healing process.
#1. The “pain” and tension has significantly decreased in what I would call a very short amount of time. It also continues to decrease every day. However, I would not classify what I experience now as pain pain.
There is still major healing taking place in my body considering the depth and size of my hernia. A little pain, a little tension, etc. is present at this phase and **should** be present for the type and scope of surgery in that part of the body. I would be *incredibly* concerned if there was absolutely no pain at this point in my recovery. That is not how the human body works with open tissue repair unless there is another serious underlying medical condition. You must give your body a chance to grow some tissue around all the sutures! My groin area (including my inner left thigh) is still a little sensitive as is the wound itself but now deep deep down inside instead of at the top. Again, normal and no big deal.
Anyone who thinks they aren’t going to have some ongoing “pain” for a few weeks or months with open tissue repair is woefully naïve imho. I used the term pain loosely as it is not pain pain. The only real pain is the first few days or if you cough / sneeze early on.
This stage I would call what I am feeling a minor annoyance and inconvenience due to the normal healing process.
My incision was little bit bigger because of the size and depth. It looks good though and my wife laughed and said she can barely see it already. Honestly don’t care about the scar itself if there is one. I have enough wounds in other spots from playing sports and I’m not going to wear a speedo at the beach.
I have zero concerns regarding “chronic pain” based on my experience so far and input from Dr. Kang, other patients, etc.
#2. I always expected and continue to plan on “full” recovery taking up to 6 months with 1 month being the first major checkpoint. I will start to lift items over 10lbs and ease into it as I feel my body out. It is overly cautious and most likely unnecessary, but I just want to take it nice and easy.
#3. 100% normal for it to take up to year for some people in terms of minor pain and occasion zings. Getting older can cause these things regardless of surgery or not.
#4. There are already times I forget about the surgery and hernia which is not good because I want to still be careful with my body at least a month. I forget about it a lot if I am out and about now.
#5. The biggest short term issue to worry about is the incision wound closing with the glue. That is completed for me and I can feel the stiff scar tissue below it which is a nice feeling. I was incredibly careful with this and even used gauze a few days longer than needed. I also made sure I didn’t use hot water when showering and just used the handheld shower tool to indirectly wash over those areas.
The “pain” was never something I was worried about going into it with Dr. Kang’s procedure. I married a young wife way above my league lol so maintaining my manliness was the most important thing for me throughout this entire process. The surgery had zero negative impact on that function of my body. Everything perfect and nothing messed up or out of place at all including cremaster reflex.
I am going to yield to Good Intentions in regards to the intricate details regarding why or why not the mesh could be causing those problems. I agree wholeheartedly with the statement, “But only you know what you’re feeling. As I’ve said before, in my case I could actually feel the mesh inside my body. Surgeons cringe when they hear that because they are taught that that’s impossible. But I could feel it and I could feel what it was doing to the surrounding tissues and all of the data pointed to the mesh as the causes of my problems.”
I would think there would be some type of specific imaging that might be conducive to finding the “smoking gun” in your situation?
Cleveland Clinic is hyper focused on resolving the issues you mentioned. Have you consulted with anyone from their office at all yet? If I were you Chuck I would call the Cleveland Clinic right now and setup an appointment to get their feedback.
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