Tissue repair pain – Pinto Mike M

Hernia Discussion Forums Hernia Discussion Tissue repair pain – Pinto Mike M

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    • #33018
      Chuck
      Participant

      Guys…congrats on making the decision to go to kang….a decision i would have made myself had i not been lied to repeatedly. One of the reasons why i went with lap mesh over tissue repair was the consistent advice i got concerning the pain of tissue repairs….one friend told me it was the most painful time of his life…where he was lunging for pain meds….another told me he almost passed out when he woke from surgery. my friends dad said he felt like he got cut by a rust knife…and then they left the knife inside. Our friend Dave who went to Yunis said he had a painful experience too….my fat arrogant POS surgeon Carvajal told me there would be little pain with lap mesh…and on that score he was correct….but pain for sure seems to be a good possibility with tissue repairs…and serious pain at that. Pinto said he only had pain for two days….Mike you indicated your pain was what you expected….do you guys have high pain thresholds or is the great Dr Kang so talented that he can cut without causing a lot of pain. I am getting a terrible dull ache in the inguinal canal where a small direct hernia was diagnosed pre mesh….I think its back and will need fixing….I will be going to see Dr Kang and just wondering what to expect….thanks for any input you have….

    • #33041
      Mike M
      Participant

      @Chuck

      Pain tolerance for me is probably pretty normal / typical.

      I had pain the first few days like most people with no mesh open tissue repair. It fades overtime. First day was as most people described, rough, moving micromillimeters at first to get to the bathroom etc, but by the start of the 3rd you can get around pretty decent but still being careful. 5th day I walked up multiple levels @ the top of the Lotte tower (one of the tallest buildings in the world). I took some very basic pain meds after the fact (I think it was just tylenol) for the first few days.

      The biggest thing for me was the “Tension” for the first few weeks. This was likely due to the fact my hernia was bigger than average and also could be because I was probably close to the upper end of the “acceptable” BMI for the best tissue repair doctors like Kang, Yunis, and Sbayi. If I went to the Shouldice clinic I would have had to lose “30lbs” by their metric. LOL!!! But in their defense they probably would have settled on ~15lbs for a real BMI count because of my muscle and height. Just speculating based on other feedback from past patients.

      I was determined to do No Mesh, Open Tissue repair regardless of whatever Mesh expert claimed. I am not a doctor but I researched enough information to know that an open tissue no mesh method would work for me in my circumstance regardless of all the Mesh nonsense blah blah.

      The biggest challenges I knew I would have to overcome is accepting the initial pain (it was no where near my limit but not painless either), taking it easy for a bit (I set my limit at 6 months), and continuing progress on getting back into shape / building core (doing great so far).

      I had pros and cons going for me into this surgery. Pros: Younger patient, no history of health issues, self created defected?, lost weight prior to surgery. Cons: Still had some weight to lose to be at the “technical” shouldice limit (not enough to be a critical issue with an actual real surgeon w/ bulletproof technique), medium size hernia?, symptoms occurring prior to surgery (still reducible, nothing insane).

      Chuck you are going to have pros and cons going into it just like me. I set my expectations accordingly based on all the knowledge I had accumulated from doctors, patients, and research posted. If you are expecting zero pain you are fooling yourself. It is going to hurt decently for a little bit then it fades like any other operation. This includes the “tension”. It could take a few weeks, it could take a few months, it could take a year. Everyone is different but it does fade if it is successful and completed by a competent doctor.

      I knew my operation wasn’t going to be the most difficult (at least I hope it wasn’t Dr. Kang) and I knew it wasn’t going to the easiest. It was probably harder than most patients Dr. Kang sees because of my size. I also knew that the recurrence rate regurgitated by the populous of mesh doctors was [email protected]$ especially as it was applied to the Shouldice Clinic, Dr. Kang, maybe Dr. Yunis?, etc. so I was determined to do it and do whatever I could do for it to be successful post op.

      Edit: Also most everyone I saw who had the operation just walked out right away from Dr. Kang’s clinic with minimal pain exactly how it is described on his website.

    • #33046
      Chuck
      Participant

      Thanks so much Mike…i know it seems like guys who choose mesh are the dumbest people in the world…in retrospect i feel that way. But every doctor i talked to told me no mesh would hurt a lot…take a long time to heal and would likely fail in a short time—requiring a second surgery with mesh—so why not do it right the first time. When i asked for specifics on the recurrance rates advertised by peterson grishkan yunis etc… i got a lot of mumbling and yada yadas…the truth is they arent tracking anything….to compound matters i had a double inguinal hernia which meant a tremendous amount of cutting in the groin…and two chances at chronic pain…even yunis suggested lap surgery….lap actually leaves nerves and cremaster unmolested…there was zero surgical pain and in my case zero scarring….my doctor claimed 5000 lap surgeries…an obvious lie in retrospect…and of course Towfigh who has at least the appearance of expertise kept yammering on and on about lap mesh being the standard…It never occurred to me that doctors would flagrantly misrepresent techniques and studies to convince you to come to them…i clearly needed to spend years researching this…and i only spend about 6 months…and i only spoke to Grishkan and Peterson both were hopelessly late for the consults…were arrogant and rude and cut off my questions….peterson had a bunch of crappy reviews and Grishkan was 100 years old….as you can See Dr Brown was not an option….Sbayi cuts nerves and cremsater…yunis wasnt really a tissue guy…Shouldice was enforcing the Death VAX and I guess i couldnt fathom that you had to Korea for a fricking hernia surgery…something everyone told me was routine and outpatient easy peasy….

    • #33050
      Mike M
      Participant

      @Chuck

      I searched for the surgeon that did your repair last night. I was pretty astonished to see how credible he seemed with countless videos, news briefs, and articles. I also found a lawsuit regarding another patient. We all go into this knowing there could be complications but the way you described your case is rather frightening in terms of the alleged negligence and alleged malpractice. I can definitely see how anyone, even those who did a tremendous amount of research, could have selected your surgeon.

      I think Mesh has it’s place but in my 40s I am not comfortable with the location of the mesh in relationship to the spermatic cord. I would rather have a Picasso that is completed with surgical precision with minimal sutures vs. a lightweight or heavyweight piece of plastic with the potential to surf around the inside of my inguinal canal with the potential to castrate me from the inside out. I am being a bit dramatic here but then again I’m not if you listen to other cases where male function was lost or severely diminished.

      I think if I was 70+, obese+, then yeah maybe I would go for it.

      Open Tissue No Mesh repair = Short Term pain that slowly diminishes to nothingness with no long term impact to your manhood. Maybe slightly higher reoccurrence but most likely not if done by a top surgeon.

      Mesh = Minimal pain short term with the potential for catastrophic problems that increases the longer you live??? Most likely this all depends on the mesh, the surgeon, the technique. Only time will tell. I read somewhere recently there were around 60,000 new cases of hernia mesh lawsuits per year. That would be around 8% of all new hernia mesh implants.

      I guess you have to pick the one that you feel has the least amount of long term impact to your well being.

    • #33051
      pinto
      Participant

      @Chuck, I want to correct you in your saying mesh patients made/make a dumb choice. No, they can only choose according to what is presented/available. Consider general surgeons, particularly those who also do emergency surgeries, to whom I was directed by my GP. Some of them also “specialize” in IG surgeries at general hospitals.

      I consulted with six of them at as many hospitals. I’m surprised how naive or uninformed they were–except one or two–about it all. They accepted hook-line-and-sinker mesh methodology such that none never mentioned risk or complication to me. Some couldn’t even tell me what mesh they used.

      I posted temporarily an interesting video at HT from the TV drama Grey’s Anatomy (maybe from 2013) in which surgeons are shown to train to do the miracle treatment for IG–mesh. The scriptwriters really did their DD because they wrote in subtly the conflict between mesh–nonmesh methods, such that the scene seemed sympathetic to nonmesh. These surgeons were shown not to have any choice (even nonmesh) because it was decided from on high. Some grumbling about it but all had to accept the training and the method to use.

      Although HT members know of my glowing reviews about my Kang surgeries, I am still interested academically in dispassionate looks at mesh methods–well, thousands are done yearly. My own dentist had one and enjoys talking about his emergency operation and how well he has done. It’s a disconnect from the many opposite cases we see around the world–yet I suppose a very small fraction of the total mesh surgeries every done.

      Anyway I just want to say that most patients had no other choice but mesh–the medical establishment is so sold on mesh. GPs tell their hernia patients go to any major hospital for a “standard” surgery almost routine today. Very easy for any patient to follow along. In fact I felt in at least one surgeon’s office I was on like an assembly line because he presumed I would be lining up for surgery once the preliminaries were done. And Chuck, BTW you won’t acknowledge my question about the legal avenues in your own case? Your reply would be much appreciated.

    • #33062
      Chuck
      Participant

      Sorry pinto for the delay in responding….very much appreciate your stuff and Mike M’s stuff..as i am likely headed to see the good Dr Kang soon. CArvajal was indeed a very smooth talker….told me there were zero risks with his procedure…claimed to have one case of pain in his career….given that only one incision was made and the surgery lasted maybe 25 minutes…and he claimed 5000 surgeries…and to be one of the busiest surgeons in the country i got suckered….Of course he said my surgery was ridiculously EASY…i said are you sure about that and he said oh yea….he had some hot chick shadowing him the day of my consult and i think he was showing off….Yea you and mike M remind me of myself…smart diligent…willing to do anything and go anywhere for your health….i just missed the bubble here….lulled by 4 friends who that double mesh without incident for 10 plus years….3 other friends who had open surgery and had hematomas dead spots and cut nerves….and then my convos with people who had shouldice and desarda and were still having issues years later….right off the bat with mesh i knew i would have no surgical pain…no scarring and a quick recovery….i felt like mesh risks = risks of cutting all the tissue that open requiress on both sides no less—-mesh whore voellers debate with Bendavid sunk me…he made it sound like tissue repairs would just fall apart after 5 years…and that the overall lowest risk for chronic pain per the studies was lap mesh….of course we know he went to shouldice whore that he is…..Bendavid was silly inarticulate in that debate…quoting cryoptic studies i couldnt understand….if he had simply said plastic causes lots of problems in the body….like x y z….i might have woken from my stupor….

    • #33066
      pinto
      Participant

      @Chuck, I hope you can forgive yourself because your decision seemed the right one that many of us would make as well. Chuck, you ignored my legal question several times now. You have had enormous losses. I fear you have been turned away which makes matters even worse for you. How have you been able to carry on?

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