Watchful….check FB hernia mesh hurts forum

[Chuck]

a bunch of tissue repair folks complaining about chronic pain…some shouldice…some bassini….there really is no good solution to a hernia…

[MarkT]

There are good solutions to a hernia…our definition of ‘good’ simply can’t be ‘perfect’.

‘Perfect’ is an ideal to strive for, but in practise it is not achievable.

[Good intentions]

Here’s the link. It’s a private group. I have not joined, I’m not really in to Facebook generally, and especially not private groups. 3,000 members.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2039629229422254

[Watchful]

Chuck,

Thanks – I took a look. Yes, you are correct – there are complaints of chronic pain after tissue repair there and in other places. Studies show that too. The important question is in what percentage of cases this happens, and how this compares to chronic pain after mesh procedures. I don’t really know the answer. I think there was a common misconception here that tissue repair causes this only very rarely, but it doesn’t look like this is correct.

I agree with you that there is no “good” solution, or at least no solutions that are as good as one would hope or expect for something this common. Ending up with a groin that feels completely normal with no discomfort and no pain at all seems elusive. It’s a “pick your poison” kind of situation.

Unfortunately, if your hernia is serious, you just have to do it. I’m a big believer in watchful waiting, but my hernia passed that stage. I waited for decades with only occasional symptoms, but it has progressed now to a level where surgery is necessary. I hope it turns out ok for me after surgery, but at the very least I lived all those years happily without post-surgical complications because I didn’t jump into surgery until there was no choice.

If you qualify for tissue repair, and you can get a superb surgeon to do it, I think that’s the best way to go, but I’m not completely sure. Regardless of the technique (tissue or mesh), a superb surgeon is critical if you want the best outcomes. That’s one thing that I’m sure about.

[Watchful]

There’s this poor guy from Quebec on that Facebook group who is about to have surgery at Shouldice, and he’s freaked out that he might be making a mistake. He keeps asking for people’s experience, but he gets almost no responses.

He made an observation that I also made, and it’s something that I also don’t understand. Patient reviews of Shouldice rarely talk about the repair itself, the recovery, whether there’s any lingering pain or discomfort, etc. There’s much more discussion of the food and the grounds than the most important thing which is the surgery and its outcomes. I’m not sure how to interpret this, but it’s certainly strange.

[William Bryant]

I noticed that too Watchful and just assumed they were happy with repair bjt not food etc. I could be wrong.

It did worry me that there were reports of pain etc and I have seen similar on hernia bible re a Desarda repair.

However on another fb group inguinal hernia support where it’s mostly mesh someone made the same point that it’s only the bad outcomes that tend to post and that’s likely to be true for mesh and tissue.

That’s why I greatly appreciate people like Pinto, Mike, Mark, Thunder Rose etc who post after surgery.

I’m so wary that even one bad review is an alarm bell so it was good to hear Dr Kang rectified Pintos repair. Very reassuring.

I hope someone calms the Quebec person and also that he posts post op.

[Watchful]

I don’t know what to assume. Dr. Yunis has almost as many reviews as the entire Shouldice Hospital, his reviews are much better, and repair outcomes are discussed much more in his reviews. He has done a lot more mesh than tissue repair.

I also appreciate those who keep posting after surgery. They are few, but few post here in general. It’s hard to know what to make of the picture so far. Among the people you mentioned: Pinto is ok now (I don’t know if 100%), but he did recur initially (he went to Dr. Kang). Thunder Rose was largely ok, but not 100% last time she posted (she had Shouldice with Dr. Yunis). Mike is ok, maybe even 100% (he went to Dr. Kang). Mark is 100% after Shouldice Hospital on both sides (done years ago). Others we had were Baris who was fixed at the Shouldice Hospital after issues from two surgeries with Dr. Koch. Casimir who was fixed by Dr. Grischkan after issues from surgery by Dr. Thomas (Desarda). There was another person here (I forget his name) who had Shouldice Hospital as a kid on one side causing chronic mild discomfort, and Dr. Kang on the other side which turned out well. Not sure if we had much more than that on tissue repair outcomes.

• This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by Watchful.

[William Bryant]

There was also Faith – Dr Kang.
And Linzee – Dr Kang.

Both good!

Incidentally I’ve looked and joined the fb group linked to and gone a long way down the posts and cannot find the ones about pain after shouldice or Desarda. How far down are they?

[Watchful]

I didn’t see Desarda either, but there are a couple on Shouldice in one of the most recent threads there. They were bilateral with one side turning out ok, and issues in the other side (one of them said the issues are now improving after some number of months.)

[Chuck]

its all very frightening…i still think Kang is the best bet…havent seen any negative reports on him….but maybe its cause its mostly koreans.

[William Bryant]

There was someone who spoke Korean who posted here and said the Korean reviews were good for Dr Kang.

[William Bryant]

It’s a shame you didn’t join Good Intentions as there’s some good posts including one where I believe you can enter a surgeons name to find out how much they were paid as I presume commission for using a product ie mesh, that’s how I read it. I didn’t do it as it’s USA and I’m in UK.

Another saying how can we trust the European hernia organisation as it’s logo, or one it’s used, has mesh of tomorrow on it.

Sort of echoed your views I feel.

Then a patient who repeats that the only good mesh is no mesh.

The patients reports are harrowing. Lives ruined after mesh implantation.

Quite galling to read.

Also updates on class actions law cases.

[William Bryant]

Thanks Chuck for the link

[roger555]

Bacterial infections on twenty explanted hernia meshes. Tests with two different methods showed 75%,85% bacterial biofilm which may be responsible for mesh complications.
https://link.springer.com/journal/10029/topicalCollection/AC_a5809beffe2e9c45f7e4a3ef221b4139

Purpose
The purpose of this study was to investigate the link between bacterial biofilms and negative outcomes of hernia repair surgery. As biofilms are known to play a role in mesh-related infections, we investigated the presence of biofilms on hernia meshes, which had to be explanted due to mesh failure without showing signs of bacterial infection.

[roger555]

Maybe this link will work.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjQjJLhhI_7AhUB32EKHXFGD3kQFnoECBgQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Flink.springer.com%2Farticle%2F10.1007%2Fs10029-022-02583-0&usg=AOvVaw2Jpsaggs3rFLfMdvsjWFqC

[roger555]

Dr Kang uses prolene sutures on some hernias to prevent recurrence. The amount of prolene would be very small but still it would be better to use absorbable sutures to avoid any possible bacterial biofilm. I plan on going to Dr Kang. I wonder if the prolene sutures can be removed and how easy or hard it would be.

[William Bryant]

Dr Kang has, I think, said he can use other sutures but the risk of recurrence would increase.

[Watchful]

There’s an advantage for Desarda in this regard since it’s routinely done with absorbable sutures without an issue.

There’s a lot of suture material in Shouldice. I saw a paper once that mentioned the weight of open mesh prolene vs the weight of prolene sutures in Shouldice. I don’t remember the numbers, but I seem to recall that they were pretty close. Watching videos of the Shouldice procedure gives an appreciation of how much suture material is involved, which is a lot. Maybe this really justifies the use of steel instead of prolene.

[Author]

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