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parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?
Parietex Progrip removal, an exercise in futility?
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37 Replies
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12 x 20 is a large piece of mesh. Was it placed for an incisional hernia or an injury of some sort? That might be part of the reason surgeons don’t want to mess with it. There is probably no viable alternative for repair after they remove it.
Dr. Muschaweck and her colleagues are probably your best possibility. She is very active in making her services available around Europe. Good luck.
https://www.fortiusclinic.com/specialists/dr-ulrike-muschaweck
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This is a very old topic, but very interesting none the less.
I am feeling absolutely desperate living in Belgium and not finding a surgeon in Belgium, Germany, … Europe, that will remove the progrip mesh (12x20cm) in my abdomen.
I have consulted with many (many!) Surgeons and none of them will do it. I have many symptoms of mesh implant illness, as described in dr. Towfigh’s recent paper, and have even presented this paper to the Surgeons at my consultations. But they all dismiss my symptoms and dr. Towfigh’s research.Dr. Towfigh mentions in this thread that removing progrip mesh is no different than removing other types of mesh. Why will no European surgeon do it then?
Is my only option to go to the US? I would have to sell a kidney to be able to afford that 🙁
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Well after I have my progrip removal, I promise to come back & report my outcome as well as just how possible or impossible it was to remove all of it without epigastric vessels being clipped off or nerves being cut. I believe it will be nothing short of an absolute miracle if all of my mesh can be removed. But the part that’s sometimes too hard to remove it from safely is the iliac artery. However I do have a lot of confidence in my removal surgeon, I understand that he’s only trying to fix someone else’s mess & that I’m coming to him already in this boat.
In fact if my removal surgeon is able to remove all of both my inguinal meshes without having to clip off my inferior epigastrics, without me losing a testicle, sustaining a bladder injury or requiring a vasectomy(from vas def damage); then I hereby proclaim that he be regarded as the greatest mesh removal surgeon alive. Which I will attest to for decades into the future to all other patients I speak to.
And yes ‘Mesh’ this is true, once they place progrip in the wrong place your screwed like me. My surgeon placed my left inguinal piece too high exposing the bottom lateral edge to my spermatic cord too much. This edge has proceeded to erode into my left cord slowly over the last 24 months(like a saw it feels like at times). All this when I had no real hernias & did not need or want any mesh to begin with. All this & then my original surgeon wanted to put more mesh in(without removing the original mesh mind you) after saying my mesh pain was likely from another hernia instead. All this & he sent me to other surgeons to cover his butt instead of help me.
Insanity, pure insanity, this is 2017. Is this really what we’ve evolved for? Millions of years of evolution to do this to each other? What if someone had put mesh into Einstein before he was able to publish his first theorem, then left him to rot & figure it out himself for years?
I will forgive & forget but it’s just sad because afterall this isen’t brain or heart surgery & he could’ve taken it right back out(even though it’s progrip he could’ve tried before it grew in) the second I woke up in shock that he put mesh in.
I mean what worse torture scenario could there be then implanting a device(3 in my case) inside a young healthy man’s groin(where he can’t get to it or do anything about it himself) that slowly over 2 yrs cuts off his testicle from the inside? Medieval torture had nothing on mesh. Every morning since my mesh was put in I wake up with the same familiar thought, “What fresh hell is this?”
So no offense & forgive me for saying this but the only people that I believe are truly “in the know” about this product, are the patients that have it in their bodies.
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Mesh removal remains a rare operation. The grand majority of patients do well with mesh, do not need it removed, and have a better long term outcome with using mesh than non-mesh options. I am hopeful that newer products will reduce the need for mesh removal in even this small subset of patients.
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Wow! I didn’t know that about Parietex Pro Grip. “You only get one shot at laying it on right?” How do you even know if the surgeon succeeded? Is he going to tell you? “Oh btw I didn’t lay one of your pieces on right, I’m sorry.” Good God.
They did not think that one through. I would rather use a slicker surface and some dissovable tacks if I were a surgeon.
Dr Towfigh if you remove mesh more than any other surgeon I’m curious why you even use mesh on patients in the first place? -
Thanks for sharing the video on Parietex. In my opinion, it is a very very misleading video and I disagree with much of its content.
Specifically:
A) Parietex ProGrip is not impossible to remove. It is no different to remove than any other mesh. I have yet to find a mesh that is “impossible” to remove. And I perform more mesh removal than almost every other surgeon in hernia.
B) We have not seen the Progrip to be “the most defective and dangerous” hernia mesh on the market. In fact, those of us who are in the know, have remarked that we see a disproportionately lower number of patients with mesh-related chronic pain due to ProGrip as compared to other mesh. -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqjxPskAcMs&t=5s
“The final Parietex unboxed in this video is the Parietex Progrip. The Parietex Progrip was designed to not need any securing device, such as tacks, sutures, or staples. Instead, the Parietex Progrip has 1000’s of little hooks made of Polylactic Acid (PLA) attached to it. The PLA hooks act just like Velcro to the patient’s tissue. Once the Parietex Progrip has been implanted, it is nearly impossible to remove. Many clients report severe, debilitating pain from the moment the Parietex Progrip is implanted.
There are even more problems with the Parietex Progrip though. Our lawyers have observed abnormally high infection rates associated with the Parietex Progrip. Hernia mesh infections almost always necessitate the removal of the hernia mesh to rid the infection. This is because hernia meshes are prone to the formation of biofilms, which are nearly resistant to even the strongest I.V. antibiotics. Unfortunately, the Parietex Progrip can be so dangerous to remove that many surgeons simply refuse to reoperate on a patient. As a result, many clients are having to live with an active infection, possibly for the rest of their lives. These are large infections that frequently go systemic. Hernia mesh infections can lead to additional serious injuries, including death.
Like the Parietex Composite, the Parietex Progrip also had a strong smell of disinfectants upon unboxing.
It is the opinion of the lawyers at the Hollis Law Firm that the Parietex Progrip is one of the most defective and dangerous hernia mesh products currently on the market!”
Dr Towfigh and other surgeons on this site: In your experience, is the Parietex ProGrip impossible to remove without making much more damage?? When the Polyacitc Acid is absorbed after 18 months, will it then be possible and easier to remove?
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parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?
As with any surgery make sure the robotic surgeon has experience with the tool & has many robotic surgeries under his/her belt!
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parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?
Phyrun,
You are correct. 20% is very high. In the studies that show such high percentage, “chronic pain” is defined as “any” pain or symptom 3 or more months after surgery. That includes not only debilitating pain but also a twinge here or there. Debilitating pain is 3%. Most of these also have been shown to diminish by 6 months and 1 year.
Good points you made.
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parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?
Intuitive Surgical, the robotics makers, are just now entering the European market. It is way too expensive for most European centers right now.
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parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?
Seems like more and more surgeons use robotic for hernia surgeries and removals of mesh in America, but this is not the case in Europe. I couldnt find anyone who perform robotic mesh removal here. Most surgeons here remove lap mesh through open surgery. I have found a surgeon who can remove my mesh laparoscopically, and he had 0 complications after 12 mesh removals. I have only seen one study and that one had 14 complications after 17 lap mesh removals, and 1 complication after 9 robotic removals. So I don’t know if robotic is better or if it depends on the surgeon.
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parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?
I think people do need to be aware and yes be scared of surgery because every surgery carries risks. Some literature puts chronic pain from hernia surgery at 30% https://www.reference.com/health/severe-pain-after-hernia-repair-normal-using-mesh-abdomen-e5a503a94410edfa which in my opinion is too high. Even at 20% is too high. People should be scared given that many hernia be an elective surgery rather than mandatory, like it was in my case. Those percentages aren’t worth it for people like us. I feel sorry for those that got injured when it should not have happened in the first place.
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parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?
It has been a while since I’ve been on here & pain/symptoms for me are continually worsening. However after seeing these other posts, you should all know that I’ve heard most(>80%) of these mesh surgeries go well & never cause problems or pain in those patients. I just happened to be one of the unfortunate ones I guess, who also didn’t want or need mesh to begin with. But the absolute very last thing I ever want my story to do is to scare another patient…
This entire post was placed for me to find help removing my mesh & to hopefully educate doctors of what it’s like on our side of the fence from a patient’s perspective. Needless to say my story was met with a healthy amount of skepticism by those I wanted help from & it apparently put fear into the very patients I was trying to help.
So again if your a patient please don’t read my post & freak out, your all gonna be ok.
Even though it finally confirmed that I wasn’t alone or just imagining all my already long lasting symptoms, it was still the worst panic & stress of my life the day I started reading all the mesh info online. I don’t ever want to cause that in anyone else ever, mesh works well for the majority of patients, just certainly not for me.
So don’t worry about the future of your mesh, cause you could die in a car accident tomorrow anyway. Hopefully that cheers you guys up a bit, lol…
On a separate note, I was right about the robot being the new best approach to inguinal lap mesh removal as more & more removal surgeons are beginning to use it now. I told y’all so, I told ya the robot would be big someday Towfigh (: I’m sick of always being so right.
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parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?
For those are interested link to my post:
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parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?
To give others some background. My inguinal hernia on my left side is about grape size, the one on my right side is smaller than that. My DR recommended lap, robotic surgery since I got the impression that it’s a low risk procedure. I made the mistake of getting the operation before reading this forum and many forums on the complications that could occur from Mesh. If I had to make the decision again, I would not have had any surgery because I think the risks are greater than the rewards, because for me, my hernia was small and it only bothered me when I did some extensive exercise like squats and deadlifts. Chronic pain for life isn’t worth the trade-off of being able to do those exercises. Fortunately, my outcome has been positive after the operation. It’s been 3 weeks since my op on 12/12/16, I didn’t need any pain med, didn’t need ice for swelling, just took stool softener and that’s it. I’m male, 40 years old, 120 lbs, 5’5″. If I had to do it again and if surgery was a must, I think I would have chosen the Desarda method because all these stories about Mesh are scary. I’m aware that chronic pan could occur with mesh or without, and like I’d said, I would opt to wait and see approach rather than surgery if I had to chance to do it again. I have the Covidien Progrip in me now and these stories are of a big concern down the road. I may not have any problems now, but who knows what will happen years down the road.
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parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?
+1 to ProGrip phyrun mesh post… I had Robotic large Inguinal Hernia surgery September 15th, needed no pain meds post surgery & so far so good mesh or hernia related.
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parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?
This is fantastic. Thank you for sharing.
Fortunately, you are in the majority. Though there is a lot of online traffic discussing failures and chronic pain after hernia repair, the majority of patients do quite well, which is why hernia repairs continue as they are. I am glad this rings true for you.
The more time passes, the less likely you are to have hernia repair-related complications. For inguinal hernias, most problems are obvious in the first few weeks. And almost all by the first 6 months.
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parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?
I know this is an old post but reading the topic and horror stories of other mesh patients really scares me. I feel really sorry for those whose lives have been ruined by the mesh. Here’s my experience. So far perhaps I’m lucky but I have inguinal hernia on both left and right side. Operation done on 12/12/16 and now it’s 1/3/2017 so it’s been 3 weeks now. No pain, didn’t even take any medications after the surgery. just the very mild tugging and gas bubble sensation sometimes in the abdomen and groin, sometimes on the inner thighs which occurs once in a while. According to surgery report, Dr used Covidien Mesh ProGrip 15x10cm 70% collagen, 30% polyester. I’m Male, 40 years old. I’m keeping my fingers crossed that I don’t have any chronic pain down the road. Should I be concerned? I’m not sure why the majority of the online chat posting seems to indicate that many people have horrible outcomes from the mesh.
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parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?
I hope this doesn’t offend any other doctors, but I admire & sort of regard Dr David Chen as like the ‘Serpico’ of the hernia mesh industry since he never has any financial disclosures. I mean do other doctors at the conferences ever corner him like pacino saying to him: “Hey Dr Chen, when you don’t take money it makes the rest of us nervous…”? Lol, Only kidding. I’ve got loads of hernia mesh shtick at this point unfortunately(I did stand-up before all this so its my coping mechanism I guess).
Another symptom I still continue to have is the testicular pain w bruising. So when I see some of these Da Vinci videos where grape skin is peeled off & then sutured back down, I wonder how easy or realistic it is to delamimate or lyse the mesh off of the spermatic cord(testicular vessels & vas deferen) w the robot? I mean why are so many surgeons more willing to dissect, pull apart & de-nervate the spermatic cord w the robot rather then just removing the mesh off of it instead? Dr Towfigh I’ve seen your video of robotic spermatic cord lysis to treat testicular pain & I was blown away, I immediately thought “that’s it, that’s exactly what I & so many other guys w this issue need! Like the lion w the thorn in its paw.” It was quite compelling & I hope more surgeons start taking notice of how capable the robot can be for removal.
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parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?
Dr. Ramshaw, Dr. David Chen, and myself have the most experience with mesh removal.
I have switched to using the DaVinci robot, as my own study has shown that my patients do better with that.
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