Can Plug & Patch “break through” muscle tissue, causing tear?

Hernia Discussion Forums Hernia Discussion Can Plug & Patch “break through” muscle tissue, causing tear?

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    • #30540
      Jordan Fitz
      Participant

      Hello,

      I’m scheduled to have my plug & patch removed in April. The pain continues to get worse, and my right side has atrophied so so much. I’ve waited on it for a year now. I’m choosing a doctor @ Cleveland Clinic and praying for the best! I have a personal friend who had the same exact mesh product removed from the same Doctor I’m seeing and he is doing pretty dang good. I don’t really think you can expect a 100% recovery from this kind of operation, but even if it’s 80%, I’ll be happy as a clam.

      Can’t believe how much time and money I already have invested in this gosh dang plug & patch;

      – two trips to california
      – 5 trips to ohio
      – 3 trips to florida
      – countless video consults
      – 1000+ hours of research and learning

      …and I still can’t believe a simple 45 minute surgery 9 years ago would end up causing so much misery. If you are planning to have hernia surgery, please do ANYTHING other than plug & patch.

      Anyway, has anyone heard of plug & patch migrating through the muscle – causing a tear or detachment? My plug has moved significantly towards the top of my skin and I’m convinced my muscle is damaged from it. I can trace my internal oblique on my right side down to my inguinal, but on the left (where previous surgery was), I can feel the opposing internal oblique kinda “flopping” around right where the plug has migrated towards the top of my skin.

      I have one more MRI scheduled before my operation to rule out muscle involvement because I don’t want to miss something that could be fixed at the same time the excision is taking place (i.e. don’t want to be put under twice).

      Is that something an Orthopedist would be better suited to diagnose?

      I hope that makes sense, incredibly hard to spell out via text.

      Finally to everyone that is suffering, keep swinging! I know it isn’t easy.

    • #30615
      Jordan Fitz
      Participant

      … not sure if I’m allowed to bump, but checking back in on this to see if anyone has experienced plug + patch causing muscle tissue damage over time

      thanks!

    • #30616
      Good intentions
      Participant

      If you want to do some research use the words erosion and migration on a search site like Google Scholar.

      Here is an example, linked below. It might have some good references. Inflammation weakens tissue and weak tissue would be more prone to tears. But determining an actual cause-effect relationship seems difficult. A study of athletes with mesh implants would probably provide useful insight but athletes generally avoid the use of mesh.

      Even if you determined that the mesh caused the tear would it affect your decision-making process?

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4746983/

      https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C48&q=mesh+erosion+inguinal&btnG=

    • #30631
      Jordan Fitz
      Participant

      Thanks!

      I just don’t want two different operations, 1. remove the mesh, 2. fix any tears, etc.

      For example, if a tear is missed before the operation and the mesh is taken out without addressing the muscle damage, I assume I’ll have to have another operation to repair muscle issues, etc.

      Thanks!

    • #30636
      Good intentions
      Participant

      It might be worthwhile to contact the Vincera Institute. Dr. Meyers has a different approach to abdominal injuries.

      https://vincerainstitute.com/

    • #30755
      Jordan Fitz
      Participant

      Thanks – I have scheduled an appointment with them in PA.

      In the meantime, I have removal surgery with Dr. Krpata booked in April. I’ve decided to go this route because Dr. Krpata will attempt removal without neurectomy + tissue only repair.

      I know someone first hand that has had the identical implant that I have removed so it’s a pretty easy choice for me. Almost like meeting this guy was “meant to be.”

      Obviously everyone is different, but he is doing great 12 weeks post op, so I think I have to take that as confirmation to move forward with confidence.

      Thanks for all your posts on this forum – I know you can be seen as negative, but the fact that you continuously are engaged on this platform shows your true (good) intentions, I believe!

      Thanks!

    • #30861
      Good intentions
      Participant

      Thank you Jordan and good luck with the removal. Please come back with details on your interaction with the Vincera Institute. I get the impression that it is growing and might be changing. Dr. Meyers seems to be stepping back somewhat.

      I found a recent HerniaTalk video with Dr. Krpata. It’s interesting that he is at the Cleveland Clinic. It is one of the big mesh implantation clinics. They even have a Chronic Groin Center, of which Dr. Krpata is the Director. They use 10% as their chronic groin pain number.

    • #30862
      Good intentions
      Participant
    • #30863
      Good intentions
      Participant

      I wanted to see what they recommend for hernia repair but for some reason you have to enter personal information to see their “Free” hernia treatment guide. Name, email, date of birth.
      Not sure why that would be necessary. Very strange. The Hernia Center is run by Dr. Rosen.

      https://pages.clevelandclinic.org/hernia-index.html?_ga=2.154868600.1955959632.1646081932-1038825680.1646081932&_gl=1*5wbl9v*_ga*MTAzODgyNTY4MC4xNjQ2MDgxOTMy*_ga_HWJ092SPKP*MTY0NjA4MTkzMi4xLjEuMTY0NjA4MTk3OS4w

    • #30869
      Jordan Fitz
      Participant

      Hey Good Intentions –

      I can vouch for Cleveland Clinic.

      I have a buddy who had the exact same bard perfix plug and patch as I do.

      He had Krpata take it out 14 weeks ago and doing well.

      He opted for more mesh, but he is willing to due pure tissue as well if there’s enough good tissue to do so.

      Also, my buddy didn’t have any sort of neurectomy.

      All to say, Krpata will do mesh removal without neurectomy + pure tissue repair.

      I’ve been searching far and wide for over a year, spending thousands, and it is VERY hard to find a doctor that is capable and willing to do removal + pure tissue.

      I’m very optimistic for my removal in April 🙂

      Also, just to speak to the “it is one of the big mesh implantation clinics,” remember that other general surgeons (including Krpata) still do mesh repairs there in large numbers… It’s my hope that Krpata’s chronic groin clinic will start to pave the way for other large hospitals to consider pure tissue repairs.

      Thanks!

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