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Dr. Kang, Gibbeum Hospital, Stephen Kwon, and more REVIEW
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@william bryant
You can do it for a lot less than I paid.
#1. I paid for two people (myself and a friend) to fly out first class with only 1 stop (there was no non-stop from my location). While you might not need first class I highly recommend against economy class. Do the next one up for it for minimal increase but a lot more comfort on a long flight. Economy is not ideal for only a week stay with this type of surgery even with a small hernia repair imho. Ideally you can fly out American Airlines upgraded economy for around $2k. Business class and first class are sort of the same now with the new flagship American airlines class. You get your own private cubical with lay flat seats. These are around $6k each depending on the dates.
#2. Hotels vary widely and depend on market condition deals. I was able to book an amazing 5 star hotel through Priceline for only $130 per night. The same room is normally $250 and up. There are some cheaper 4 star hotel options that are really nice too. intercontinental was a great location and the staff spoke great English. Service was exceptional, mall was located below the hotel, everything within walking distance except the hospital which was an easy 20min taxi ride away with good traffic. Breakfast was included at the Intercontinental.
#3. Prices on food, merch, clothes, etc are most expensive near the hotel but get extremely reasonable as you go further away the tourist areas. There was a fantastic Korean BBQ place near the hotel that was extremely well priced too. About a 5min walk. Shuttle app is your best friend if you want to order food in and is very reasonable too. Shuttle app is designed for foreigners in Korea and I had zero issues with it my entire stay. I used it a lot at night.
#4. Procedure itself with a private room was around $4k total because I had two hernias. This is less than most people’s deductible nowadays since the quality of health care in the US has plummeted while the costs have skyrocketed. Single hernia with private room would be close to $2700 US dollars with a private room.
$1000 per week hotel on the high end places with a good deal. $2750 for procedure with private room and single hernia. $2000 for upgraded economy ticket. $500 for food per week is overkill if you eat at normal places. Add another $1000 for good measure you are probably at $7250. If you have a long flight and can squeeze it get the flagship class seat and you will have a perfect flight.
Pain relief – The medicine the hospital gave me was good. I did need an extra shot the day after surgery to get home but after the first day or two it wasn’t too bad. Manageable by careful movement and the pain medicine they gave me. You can take two of their pills every 4 hours as needed preferably with a meal.
I used the stool softener 3 times a day and 30 minutes after each meal. I had no issues and never had to “pushed” once. No diarrhea or anything crazy either. I was extremely careful and took it slow. I ate beef and rice mostly and drank bottled water provided by the hospital and hotel. It was delicious.
I absolutely knew going into it there was going to be some pain but it was a small price to pay for the pain now rather than later with the mesh. Just know it DOES improve and will go away including the tension.
Sonogram and everything else is included in the hospital price. No hidden fees or extra charges for medicine or anything like that at all.
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Brilliant Mike, thanks very much for that. Greatly appreciated and very helpful.
I’m sure there will be loads of questions. But some that I would be please to have answered would be…
Cost: for me this is a bit of a factor as I’d be from UK and staying… How much do you think the total bill was? Including 2 week hotel stay, food, everything really
Pain relief: Did you take anything? How long for?
Constipation: Did you take laxitives as a precaution?
Sonograph: is this included in operation price?
Once again, thanks very much for being so thoughtful as to leave such a detailed review. I am determined to travel to south Korea now. I may have to wait for some payments and finance in place but your report has put my mind at rest and helped make decision fae easier.
Many thanks.
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Also yes I know I spelled Desarda wrong. LOL
I edited in a few things quickly after I posted and didn’t have a chance to correct typo before it locked me out.
Hopefully a moderator here can edit that and delete this. lol
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@emuboy2000 – I appreciate you taking the time to respond and expand upon your decision. I had not seen your previous posts, so this has been helpful. BTW, I was not doubting that you actually lived near Shouldice, in case that was not clear…I mean that I perceived the decision to go to Korea as dubious, given that you live near Shouldice.
Clearly the added context of being Korean and still having ties to Korea, is very relevant. Further, having a hidden/occult hernia is *extremely* relevant to your position and the criticism that Shouldice will not rely on imaging and will only operate on a palpable hernia (and I share that critical viewpoint – I think imaging clearly has much to offer – its flaws should just be recognized).
I understand the points you make about the longer stay, staples, and the ‘always having done it this way’. I think Shouldice should indeed modernize some of its procedures and policies, including updating the hospital and beds, considering alternative closing methods, and offering an option to not stay for several days. Personally, these are not enough of a ‘negative’ (and the stay is positive in some ways) to sway a decision when the procedure and outcome should be the priorities, but I understand each person will have their own thoughts about that.
I find “The problem with Shouldice” blog to be riddled with problems. Virtually every criticism and point raised by that surgeon has little (if anything) to do with patient outcomes and typically doesn’t even consider the patient perspective. She talks about the ‘fairness’ of Shouldice being able to cherry pick patients, being grandfathered into the OHIP system as a private hospital, that she would be bored doing the same thing every day, etc…it’s all valid criticism of the SYSTEM, but near-irrelevant from a patient perspective.
In any case, thank you for expanding upon your previous post. Your decision makes more sense to me now. I don’t want to appear to be a “Shouldice shill” either…I had good experiences there, recognize what they could update or do better, and I am very pleased to see Dr. Kang being another tissue repair option. If you do go, I hope you will post about your experiences the way Mike M has done.
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Forgot to mention, my occult hernia is a factor in why i am going to Kang instead. Shouldice doesn’t operate on small hernias. My occult hernia is causing pain and i need it addressed
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I hate this website sometimes. I wrote a very long reply but it disappeared so i am rewriting it again
I’ve made a post about my situation before but i am korean. I visit korea often and have family members there. Many of the expenses that the average person needs to spend on (like hotel fees) aren’t applicable to me because i have a place in Seoul. Although i don’t have insurance in korea, $3000 is not steep for me. Since i am going to korea anyways, it’s not far fetched that i would choose Kang over Shouldice.
I think that Doctors should use every tool they can to accurately diagnose their patients. There is not a single good argument that could be made for why Shouldice refuses to use ultrasound alongside their physical examination. My left hernia is an occult hernia and physical examination failed to diagnose it. It wasn’t until i got an ultrasound done that i knew it was a hernia. If you look through 1 star reviews of Shouldice clinic, many of them are complaints about the diagnosis process. Patients will bring their own ultrasound result and Shouldice will still continue to reject it. I would hope that if a surgeon is planning to do a surgery that they would do everything they can to diagnose their patients to the best of their abilities first. I don’t think that this is too much to ask. There really is no downside to the usage of ultrasound
Shouldice clinic making people stay several days after surgery is a way for them to squeeze every penny out of you btw. Shouldice is a private clinic afterall. In Canada, OHIP (healthcare) covers the cost of the surgery itself. However, you have to pay for the “hotel” stays in order to get a surgery at the clinic. There aren’t many modern hernia repair clinics and hospitals out there (whether it be mesh or non-mesh) that will force its patients to stay several days. It is completely unnecessary and just a waste of time. Additionally, for OHIP patients like me, the wait time for shouldice is actually rather quite long. Shouldice prioritizes patients who are paying out of their pockets. If i am going to have to wait like 6 months, i might as well just fly to korea since i am going there anyways.
Speaking of long stay at the clinic, the staples that Shouldice uses contributes to this late discharge. They remove the staples after 2-3 days. From the stories ive read of people’s experience in Shouldice, the staples seem to cause some level of discomfort. In my opinion, the aftercare of the surgery matters just as much as the surgery itself. Why is Shouldice opting for staples when a much more comfortable and better option is available for the patient? Even surgeons outside of Shouldice Clinic who have adopted Shouldice method to their repair don’t use staples anymore. It’s obviously not a deal breaker but these things do add up.
Of course the quality of the facility matters when you are going to have to spend several days there. I don’t know if i need to say more about this. I don’t want to stay in a old looking hotel for several days in discomfort.
I am not completely against Shouldice. If for whatever reason Kang doesn’t work, Shouldice is my second option. It’s just that given various different reasons, i am choosing Kang over Shouldice.
There is actually a small internet blog written by a Canadian hernia mesh surgeon who pretty much have similar complaints that i have towards Shouldice, you can check it out here:
As for the dubious claim that i live across Shouldice, here is a picture of my driver’s license with sensitive information censored:
https://i.postimg.cc/qBjdVdBW/1.pngAs you can see, i live in Thornhill ON Canada. If you input that in Google maps, it should highlight the general area where Shouldice is.
The reason why i am doing this is that your skepticism is justified. Anyone on the internet can make any claims. I could be a paid shill from Dr Kang for all anyone knows.
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@emuboy2000
Personally, I think that is crazy to fly to Korea and take on unnecessary risk and expense if you truly live ‘across the street’ from Shouldice, but to each their own.
The main reasons I could see someone choosing Dr. Kang over Shouldice is the inability to choose the surgeon at Shouldice, or because the patient is not Canadian and would need to travel and pay ‘full price’ for their repair anyway…and yet neither of those are mentioned among your concerns.
Making decisions about your health because of things like an ‘if it ain’t broke don’t fix it’ cliché or the antiquated ‘hotel’ strikes me as very shortsighted, as neither is relevant to what SHOULD be your primary concerns: the quality of the repair and your expected outcomes. Why is staying there for several nights an issue if you are willing to fly to Korea???
Not sure why the closure method factors in either. The closure is strong and reliable, yielding a narrow scar that fades with time. They remove the pins before you are discharged…takes a few minutes. Perhaps not ideal, but is that really a concern?
While I do wish they would amend this policy, Shouldice’s reliance on physical exam (which AFAIK all surgeons will do, even if they have imaging) should mainly be a concern only for the small minority of patients who have a hidden/occult (non-palpable) hernia. The Shouldice method makes missing a secondary hernia extremely unlikely too.
Part of the reason for relying on physical exam is that it does remain the easiest and highly reliable way to diagnose a hernia…and because imaging can be poorly done, misread by clinicians or radiologists who are not hernia experts, and can yield false positives (see Dr. Towfigh’s published work for more on those points). Shouldice will tell you they see a number of patients each year who have false positives from imaging.
There is plenty of competition in the space…millions of hernia repairs are performed each year…but if you want a Shouldice repair, you either need to go there, find another surgeon who offers it (and who comparatively performs a fraction of the number of those repairs), or else choose another repair method (and Dr. Kang does indeed seem like a good one).
I don’t think going to Dr. Kang is a bad thing and I’m guessing you will be quite satisfied in the en…it just seems like a rather dubious decision if you are ‘across the street’ from Shouldice and haven’t even cited the main concerns that some have with going there (choice of surgeon being the main one).
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@mikem – I’ve had two repairs for inguinal hernias done at Shouldice Hospital (right side ~30yrs ago, left side ~18yrs ago). I don’t have the surgical notes, but assume the cremaster was cut or reduced, since that is standard practise there. My cremaster reflex functions fine and from what I can tell, both repairs have been flawless…no post-op issues, zero chronic pain to this day, no restriction on lifestyle (swimming, yoga, weight training, etc.), I can’t recall ‘tension’ being an issue during recovery, but it has been a while.
In addition to the three docs you mentioned, there is also Dr. Sbayi @ Stony Brook in NY. He worked at Shouldice for 1yr and continues to perform that repair with many hundreds of them under his belt.
Great news that Stephen is translating Dr. Kang’s book…I’ve been impressed with what I’ve read of him and his work, of course from the experiences of you and others. I hope anyone else here who chooses him will also post about their experiences.
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I had zero issues with any of the roads there. The roads were exceptional throughout the city compared to a major US city.
The bumpy taxi ride did not cause the issue with Pinto. The hernia he had was called a “sliding” hernia that is rare and was not detected with the initial sonogram. A sliding inguinal hernia is defined as a hernia where part of the hernial sac wall is formed by an organ, e.g., the colon or bladder. Thus, repair of a sliding inguinal hernia may have higher risk of complications and recurrence compared with non-sliding inguinal hernia.
Sliding hiatal hernia is more common 10% to as high as 60%. Sliding inguinal hernia is not common 3%-8%.
Once the sliding hernia was identified Dr. Kang was able to repair it successfully on the second time around. Obviously the assumption is if was detected on the first time around it would not have an been an issue.
Movement in the car caused zero issues even on day 1 for me. The day 1 issue with me was just standing and walking LOL. Sitting and laying around was pure joy. But understand the hernia repair is EXTERMELY strong. It is very typical for patients to be ultra paranoid about it breaking the first few weeks but it is solid. I heard a lot of stories including one with a patient tripping at the airport, feeling movement, but it was 100% fine. I was equally paranoid rehabbing the first week but you have to trust in Dr. Kang. It’s incredibly strong as long as you don’t do anything ridiculous and take it easy for the first few weeks.
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