Mesh less repair after 8 month : disaster

[drtowfigh]

MRI is without contrast.

[drtowfigh]

Côme,

Sound like you have an inflammatory disorder of the GI tract. It need not be related to your hernia repair.

[Côme]

It definitely is connected to the repair. It started right after (never had any digestive issue before, always worked lile clockwork).

Recently again, I went to a yoga class and clearly I sollicitated the area a bit much, felt very sore after. For the following 2 days, I had huge digestive issue, completely bloating in the zone of the repair, with stingy pain and gargling noise. It was more painful than before.

There is a direct link between this repair and the digestive issue.

And now the only thing they want is to do a MRI for which I have to take this contrast agent which is a complete poison. This really is a medical nightmare

[hi9er]

Have you looked into hyperbaric chamber therapy? It helps heal stubborn or hard to heal wounds

[Côme]

This is interesting. Because the Dr. Conze told me that I had a little allergic reaction to the skin suture thread. I asked him back then if I could have had allergy to the internal suture thread (which is absorbable but much slower), and he said “no” without any further investigation.

Because there is clearly a connection between this repair and my symptoms… And when I strain de repair, the symptoms get much worse…

[John Fortem]

What was the suture thread made of? Absorbable sutures don’t last longer than 3 months, and by then they have lost most of their strength. If they last longer than that, then they are probably permanent sutures.

[Côme]

Long lasting suture are more like 6 months I think, but yes, at that point they have lost most of their strength already.

The repair is still holding strong. However I feel like the bulge is quite big. It doesn’t feel only like the healing ridge pressing against my skin, it feels like if the “wall” created by the repair was “too thin / fragile” and the intestine was pushing against, creating a bulge. (There is no reccurence, so it’s definitely not that).

[miner]

They can’t see much without mri contrast in your abdomen. I was pretty much refused a mri scan if I opted to not have contrast. It depends on the body part when it comes to contrast apparently in the abdomen it’s not very good without it. I usually opt for ct scans for this reason. But of course you get the radiation dose.

[drtowfigh]

Miner, this is incorrect. MRI should be performed without contrast for any hernia related problem. Contrast is only helpful for certain tumors.

[John Fortem]

Do you guys have an MRI machine at your clinic? If you do an MRI scan without contrast, can you assess possible hernia recurrence?

[Côme]

Hmm but then why are they all refusing to do one for me without contrast ?

I will try to insist again…

[John Fortem]

Good question! Was this in Germany?

My brother was pretty much refused an MRI scan if he didn’t take
Gadolinium. At one point, he came so close to getting on with it. He came to the hospital for his appointment, and they brought out the stuff. I drove him there so I followed him in. I may be confusing something here, because when I google it now I see that Gadolinium is injected into one of your veins. I remember they had a pitcher and a cup on a serving tray. He had to drink it. He was hesitating and refused in the last minute. He had to take it some time before he went in for the scan.

This was some years after his indirect hernia surgery and he complained about some abdominal pain, and the doctors thought it might have to do with his hernia surgery, which he had in Germany actually. Thankfully his symptoms cleared up after about a year or two, he told me. I spoke with him about this a few weeks ago.

[Good intentions]

Maybe he was getting a CT scan with barium sulfate contrast agent. That’s the one you drink.

[John Fortem]

Yeah, that must be it. I seem to remember they had something like a white powder poured in and mixed with water. I think I had Gadolinium myself at one point. But I think I did a CT scan, not MRI. Not sure if they use the same stuff for both CT and MRI. They injected something in my vein, and I remember feeling all warm inside. They did warn me that it would have that effect, and that it might make me want to pee.

[miner]

I was getting ct scans every 6 months of my abdomen for a different tumor. I did have a mri after it got larger but that didn’t show anything different. I don’t know what absorbable sutures are made of you may be allergic if they are from some mammal origin. They can take a long time to absorb as well.

[Côme]

I’ve been thinking about the allergy. I don’t know what the absorbable thread was made of. I know I had an allergic reaction to the skin suture thread (Dr. Conze told me). When I asked the Dr. Conze if I could have had an allergic reaction to the internal thread, he just said “No” without any further investigation.

As for the CT scan, for abdominal CT Scan (where you have multiple sensitive organs including genitals), you receive 7 years worth of natural radioactivity in 1 shot. And that just doens’t feel right for me…

[John Fortem]

Where are you getting these numbers from?

On average, people are exposed to about 2.4 millisieverts (mSv) of natural background radiation per year. This exposure comes from various sources, including cosmic radiation from space, terrestrial radiation from the ground, and small amounts of radioactive materials in the air, food, and water.

In some places, the average annual exposure can be higher due to factors like altitude and local geology. For example, people living in areas with high levels of radon gas or at higher elevations may receive higher doses of background radiation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Background_radiation

The amount of radiation you receive from a CT scan depends on the type of scan and the part of the body being imaged. For example, a typical CT scan of the abdomen and pelvis exposes you to about 10 millisieverts (mSv) of radiation, which is roughly equivalent to 3 years of natural background radiation.

Different types of CT scans have different radiation doses. For instance, a head CT scan exposes you to about 2 mSv, which is equivalent to about 8 months of natural background radiation.

So, while CT scans do expose you to more radiation than other imaging tests like X-rays, it’s not quite as high as 7 years’ worth of natural background radiation in a single scan.

https://about.cmrad.com/articles/ct-scan-radiation-dose-understanding-msv-exposure-levels-by-scan-type

[Peter]

I also have your same constipation and stomach pain issues after 2 meshes repair for the same hernia plus hernia area and testicular pain. Today I had steroid injection to the hernia hard lump. The surgeon told me the chronic pain is persistent. I have to accept to have the 2 meshes removal, which will be a big risky surgery. Life is a nightmare after the surgeries. I was told the surgery is normal, 99.99% success rate. My case is a failure. i am looking for a solution on website every minute.

[Côme]

I understand and it must be awful. I understand how mesh can affect the whole area (when they fail, shrink, develop adhesions…)

But here I didn’t have mesh. The hernia sac was only fatty tissue (no intestine). And even the suture thread, it was resobarble suture 100% (inside /out), means at this time I don’t have any foreign material in my body normally….

[Good intentions]

Are you taking pain medication of any type? Even aspirin or ibuprofen? I’ve found that both of those can cause constipation.

Any hernia repair method usually involves some sort of manipulation of the hernia sac. I assume that any breach of the peritoneum could expose intestine to adhesion sources. Adhesions can be painful, as I understand things. I have not heard of them as common from open hernia repair but it might be a possibility.

It might be that you have two or more problems happening at the same time. There might not be a single solution.

Here is a link to one of your previous posts where you describe the surgery by Dr. Conze. Good luck.

https://herniatalk.com/forums/topic/experience-with-muschaweck/#post-52742

herniatalk.com

Experience with Muschaweck - Hernia Discussion - Hernia Talk

Experience with Muschaweck - Hernia Discussion - Hernia Talk

[Côme]

Hello.

Yes but the hernia sac was very small and only made of fatty tissue. However I’ve read that adherence can form even without breach, just from inflammation. It is rare, but it seems to exist. However I asked both the gastro-enterologist who did the colonoscopy and Dr. Conze, both seems to say it’s highly unlilely.

They want to do an MRI, however I’m reluctant with the contrast agent.

At the moment, I’m not taking any medication. I take a special form of psyllium husk that helps a lot and sometimes a high dose of vitamin C powder or magnesium chloride as a laxative (maybe 1 or 2 times / months).

Adherences is one of the first thing I thought about. I found this clinic : https://clearpassage.com/

However the whole trip + treatment will cost me 10 000$ and I’m not even sure if that will do anything.

The site of discomfort that I feel is much higher than the hernia repair itself (I attach a photo). And they can’t find a connection. However I know that the ilio-inguinal nerve and ilio-gastric nerve are connect to the same branch. Could it be that the ilio-gastric nerve is irritated, creating a contraction of the psoas and squeezing the intestine…

I’m really on a medical errand…

clearpassage.com

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[miner]

There is still lots of stitching even in mesh free repair. Depending on the technique the stitching remains or dissolves. Your body could be reacting to that. I developed a Desmoid tumor after a bowel surgery about 1 in million chance of that. Initially it just showed up as inflammation in scans until in about 6 months was the size of a baseball and could no longer be called inflammation. I’d skip the nerve block they are just trying to feel like they are helping.

[Côme]

Interesting. Mine were entirely resorbable. I’m 8 months post surgery. Perhaps they last a little bit longer than that, not sure.

Anyway they should be very soon entirely gone…

How did you diagnose your tumor? MRI?