parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?

Hernia Discussion Forums Hernia Discussion parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?

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    • #10659
      marcello71
      Member

      Parietex Progrip removal, an exercise in futility?

    • #13180
      Chaunce1234
      Member

      parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?

      marcello71 – I’m sorry to hear your having problems. It sounds like your initial symptoms were not due to hernias. Having said that, without an exam, it’s very hard to know if there were hernias, weaknesses, or nothing. It’s also difficult to know if the mesh is causing the current symptoms or not. In the event there is an ongoing inflammatory component to your symptoms, would consider a month long course of anti-inflammatory treatment. This includes a medrol dosepak, followed by 3 weeks of naproxyn. Myoflex cream or aspercreme topically, and ice/heat used on a schedule based on trial and error as to what seems to help best for you. I have seen this work many times, but not every time. This is easy, and low risk, and if you have any side effects from the meds, simply stop them. These should be prescribed by a doctor who should go over all the risks/benefits so you can decide. I am interested as to what your idea is about separating the mesh from the surrounding tissue. There is no “right” answer to mesh removal timing, but usually, the longer the better, unless it’s within a week or so. Hope this helps!

    • #13183
      marcello71
      Member

      parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?

      Thank you for your speedy reply, this website truly is incredible & very valuable to ailing patients. I have tried numerous NSAIDs and am currently on aleve(naproxen) daily as well as tramadol for pain but as I am only 30, I do not see leaving the mesh in working out for me in the long run. I do not blame the mesh at all for my situation as it does work great for so many, however I just completely didn’t need(or want) it to begin with. My focus now isent to blame anyone but just to try to regain my health & move on. My idea for easier removal(this hopefully will be seen by Dr towfigh as well for her input) came about when any surgeon I saw said that the only situation warranting removal is infection of the mesh because in that case(I’ve been told) bacteria & inflammatory fluid or pus collects around the mesh making it as easy as “slipping a tissue out of a Kleenex box”. So then couldn’t this be simulated with a non-infectious sanitizing liquid like a biological or antibiotic type fluid possibly? It may sound silly but I saw one of these videos where the pre-peritoneal space was swollen & blown up like a water balloon full of infectious fluid, so the surgeon slightly incised near the top so as not to let too much infectious fluid out, then he pulled the balled up mesh out drenched but completely de-laminated and free-floating. The surgeon then used a clear antibiotic type fluid to irrigate the space, filling it up just like the fluid before it had… What makes me feel its even more feasible is that polyester is hydrophillic & polylactic acid is metabolised by hydrolysis. So maybe even filling the pre-peritoneal space with a high water content sanitizing liquid then leaving it to soak with the patient anesthetised for 30 minutes could facilitate it being slipped out like a Kleenex just as easily. Completely theoretical & quite comical to a surgeon I bet, but I just thought what if?
      Btw I see your a fellow U of A alum, go wildcats!

    • #13184
      Chaunce1234
      Member

      parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?

      I love the analytical thinking! Unfortunately, it wouldn’t work. The reason is that the tissue actually grows through the pores of the mesh, and that tissue is not dissolvable (at least no way that we know). If it’s infected, that tissue ingrowth doesn;t happen. As for removal for pain, it’s legit, but sketchy, and shouldn’t be done without a very thorough evaluation, particularly looking for other causes of pain. You may want to try the medrol dosepak though – way stronger than aleve. Just don’t take NSAIDs at the same time.

    • #13185
      drtowfigh
      Keymaster

      parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?

      Fascinating discussion

      I agree with Dr Earle. I would have to see your imaging to confirm if you indeed had hernias. I wonder if you had small hernias that were treated and your surgeon’s comment about “prophylactically” repairing them intended to imply that you had not yet incarcerated or strangulated your (small) hernias and he was protecting you from this possibly occurring in “3-5 years.”
      I don’t know. Just trying to make more logical sense of the situation.
      Question:
      – did the symptoms for which you presented to the ER resolve after the hernia repair? That is what is important. Just because your hernias were small does not mean they were not causing your symptoms. Symptoms are a more important reason to operate than size.

      As for mesh removal: it’s almost always feasible. It has risks. Injury to your spermatic cord or to nerves in the area are definitely risks with this operation and so I would not take recommend that procedure lightly. The question is why do you have your symptoms and direct the treatment toward that end.

      If you are fit and you had three pieces of mesh, a tightness or stiffness of your abdomen and pelvis may be the cause. Also, the type of fixation you had may be the cause. Inflammation due to mesh should resolve Formosa Patients after the first couple of months. Thin patients and women are more likely to have this problem, as are those with fibromyalgia and inflammatory disorders. Dr Earle’s recommendations are right on for that problem.

      If your mesh is too tight, Botox injections have been shown to help out with that problem. It’s a unique thought. It relaxes the muscles and therefore the repair. It is a temporary effect but many people have a long lasting result.

    • #13187
      marcello71
      Member

      parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?

      Thankyou for the response Dr towfigh(I am hoping to consult with you on removal in the future if all else fails). My symptoms before the surgery that sent me to the ER were just constipation & resulting pressure that got better before the surgery which I told him about, I said: “ya know I’m not constipated anymore or in any pain at all…”, he then gave me a physical exam with his response being: “ok looks like its time to get you into surgery”. This led me to believe that he saw something warranting surgery that I didn’t understand which I trusted since he was the surgeon. I maybe had the 1 tiny asymptomatic hernia at most but then again I’m no surgeon(all the other doctors & radiologists I’ve seen say I only had 1 very small umbilical defect as well). To answer your question, I had no real symptoms at the time of surgery and I agreed to the surgery purely based on his diagnosis & a fear of them getting worse. The only difference I felt after the surgery was foreign material left inside me(I.e. I didn’t feel as if any hernias or bulges had been fixed inside or out, everything was the same as before). I’ve also had a scan since the surgery that, aside from areas of identifiable mesh, is identical to the prior scan from before surgery with the same radiological findings.

      >>All that being said, I don’t want to sound like I have a negative attitude or any bitterness at all. I don’t hold any grudge or anger towards my implanting surgeon, especially since I can’t say for sure what his intentions were or not. He still to his day tries to assure me that I did infact have 4 hernias. Maybe your right Dr towfigh maybe he meant prophylactically, but he used the words, “you have 4 hernias and I can fix them for you” so I don’t know how one could fix something prophylactically. However I also can’t diagnose myself and am not a doctor(no matter how often I pretend to be one & even ask my friends or family to call me doctor lol). And as far as I have heard mesh works just fine for many people that have hernias & that never experience any problems with it. At this point I am only interested in recovering my health & moving on with my life once it is removed.

    • #13205
      drtowfigh
      Keymaster

      parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?

      Dear Marcello,

      Regarding the nicotine: it prevents adequate collagen deposition and this is the reason why we feel it affects healing of incisions and increased hernia recurrence. I am not aware of vasodilation as the reason for the nicotine effect. At this point, we do not have the scientific evidence for any of this.

    • #13263
      marcello71
      Member

      parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?

      The real reason I posted on here was to hopefully be referred to an experienced removal surgeon in my area of the country. I have 2 pieces(bi-lateral inguinal) of parietex progrip and 1 piece of symbotex composite umbilical mesh. Im experiencing trouble from all three pieces currently but only wish to have one side of the groin + umbilical piece removed for now. I’m in the Midwest in Wisconsin and I only know of Dr Jacobs(who sounds very competent & thorough but is in New York) and Dr Ramshaw(who is my first choice but is in transition currently). Is there anyone else who removes mesh laparoscopically(with atleast 30+ removals under their belt) that’s located in the Midwest or even in or near Wisconsin?

      I also have another more realistic & innovative idea for freeing up the mesh by dissolving the tissue ingrowth to it in the pre-peritoneal space… This one is too good to share over the internet though(it actually involves chemistry & biology n’ stuff (: ), it could prove to be very lucrative if it works. I just need help finding the right surgeon to remove this stuff, then the recipe is theirs, lol.

    • #13264
      marcello71
      Member

      parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?

      This is a repost to my original discussion, I’m sorry I must have deleted my first 2 posts somehow instead of editing them…

      I had bi-lateral inguinal + umbilical hernia surgery with 3 pieces of mesh(2 pieces of parietex progrip in groin & 1 piece of symbotex composite in umbilical) implanted in Feb 2015. It all began from me lifting things for my mother in Oct 2014 when I became over exerted feeling like things had sunk downward a bit in my stomache which followed with over a week of constipation. After an N.P. examined me saying I had no hernias she then suggested imaging at the hospital if things didn’t improve. After a ct scan at the ER showed only 1 very small umbilical defect containing fat, the ER doc came in saying “they only see one in there but I felt an inguinal hernia too, its there trust me” so I was sent to a surgeon. The first I went to said, “you don’t have any hernias, come back if something pops out”. So I went for a second opinion with that surgeon saying, “you have four hernias and I can fix them for you”. I said “but the first surgeon said I had no hernias” so he printed out 4 slides of my ct scan where he circled the 4 hernias to convince me of his diagnosis. So being frightened of them worsening or popping out into my scrotum I agreed to him fixing them but since my mother has a vasculitis autoimmune disease(I vehemently denied allowing an implant for fear of rejection), I said “only use mesh if its absolutely necessary to fix the hernias, otherwise sew them up or do nothing if they’re small enough” to which he nodded ok. Anyway I had the surgery which he did lap tapp with me saying after, “so you used 3 pieces of mesh, those hernias were bad huh? I mean it was necessary then huh?” to which he replied “well it would of been necessary in the next 3-5 yrs probably, it was a preventative procedure” I was kinda shocked, having been led to believe there were definitely 4 hernias that needed fixing prior to the surgery. Since the operation I have had all sorts of complications from allergic/autoimmune(bloating, swelling, inflammation, etc.) to groin/testicular pain(between 2-8 out of 10 at times) as well as vascular issues with my genitals turning purple at times of pain & activity. This prompted me to get other opinions with numerous surgeons since the surgery saying, “I don’t see why he did the surgery in the first place, you had no real hernias”. Hearing this made me wonder if removal would be easier or more possible if there’s no hernias being held in by the mesh currently. So finally I am here to ask what the optimal timeframe is to attempt to remove this parietex progrip & is it even possible without me losing a testicle? Because of the Polylactic acid microgrips that take 18 months to dissolve, is it better to attempt removal sooner to prevent more tissue in-growth or later once the microgrips have dissolved? I also believe I may have a solution or idea to dissolving them quicker or de-laminating it easier so to speak from all the vital structures in the pre-peritoneal space(triangle of doom: epigastric/iliac vessels, triangle of pain: sperm cord/ilioinguinal & other nerves) and wish to have a surgeon confirm or deny its feasibility…

    • #13283
      drtowfigh
      Keymaster

      parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?

      Here are some suggestions provided by a HerniaTalk member:

      Dr Matthew Goldblatt and Dr Jake Greenberg are both located in Madison

      I personally know both surgeons and vouch for their expertise and quality of care.

      Let me know if this is helpful.

    • #13334
      marcello71
      Member

      parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?

      Thankyou for the help and guidance Dr Towfigh & Dr Earle, this website is truly a godsend to lost patients. In regard to the 2 surgeons mentioned, I have met with Dr goldblatt and he is a great, truly understanding & very competent surgeon however he’s never performed a laparoscopic mesh removal before unless for infection. I don’t believe Dr greenberg has either, unless infected ofcourse which is totally different. I am willing to have to drive atleast a few states distance for this, I just don’t know if flying across the country is an option for me at this point. I guess I really just need a surgeon who’s done atleast 10 of these & is located atleast in the Midwest hopefully(>14 hrs driving distance). What I’m wondering is, can any surgeon get all of the mesh out? It seems most just leave pieces behind where they’re hardest to get at but where they’re also causing most symptoms for the patient. So then would leaving pieces over the triangle of doom while removing mesh from all areas around it even help anything? They might as well call it the Bermuda Triangle of Doom for how few surgeons are willing to venture there…

    • #13335
      jgens99218
      Member

      parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?

      Marcello71

      I had my Laparoscopically implanted mesh removed. There are no guarantees that every bit of the mesh can be removed. There is no guarantees that a nerve or another part of your anatomy will not get damaged. You need to see the most experienced and reputable surgeon possible to remove your mesh. Often times mesh removal alone will not work and triple a neurectomy with mesh removal is more likely to yield better results. Either way it is a chance you have to take verses the pain your in now. I would wait as long as possible. Often times pain subsides or becomes manageable even resolves with time.

      Good Luck JG

    • #13339
      drtowfigh
      Keymaster

      parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?

      The goal is to remove whatever mesh is bothering you. I try to remove all the mesh but if it’s stuck to important areas and too risky it may be left behind. Depends on the reason for the mesh removal.

      Consider driving to Cleveland? See Dr Yuri Novitsky in Case Western

    • #13353
      tokidoki
      Member

      parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?

      Not sure where you are located but I had major problems with my hernia surgery.

      I see you were recommended 2 surgeons in WI. I have met with one of them and would say his experience is very limited in post hernia pain and surgeries performed. The other I know the name but did not see him but met with one of his peers I think Dr. Wallace. I also met with Ramshaw, Goodyear and Yunis and spoke with Dr. G in Cleveland. I had surgery with one of them but all seemed very impressive and excellent at communications.

      Good luck. Not sure if this forum has PM but you are more than welcome to contact me if it does.

    • #13734
      marcello71
      Member

      parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?

      Thankyou beenthere for your input, Who did you end up having the removal with of those 3 surgeons you mentioned? I don’t think there is a PM on here but I would still very much like to get in touch with you by email or otherwise to share info since I am very close to this tough decision. Was your mesh put in lap or open? Sounds like you had a good outcome?

      I was also wondering what the consensus is on Dr William Meyers in Philadelphia for lap inguinal mesh removal of my kind..? I ask because I am looking for removal w/o any more mesh being put back in.

    • #13736
      DrEarle
      Participant

      parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?

      I do not believe Dr. Meyers does any laparoscopic surgery for hernia repair or mesh removal. Michael Rosen is also on Cleveland. Dr. Ramshaw is now at the Univ of TN in Knoxville. I’d be happy to see you in MA, then we can talk about your chemistry project as well! I’m sure Dr. Towfigh would see you in CA anytime.

    • #13843
      drtowfigh
      Keymaster

      parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?

      Hi there
      Any update as to how you’re doing?
      Did you seek consultation with any of the surgeons?

    • #13934
      marcello71
      Member

      parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?

      Hi again Dr towfigh, your a very caring Dr to check in on my situation like this…
      Unfortunately my systemic symptoms recently took a very drastic turn for the worse. About a week ago shooting pain in my left arm with alternating burning/numbness/pins & needles began which has now extended to other areas all over my body. It’s still mainly in my left arm but also now affects all other extremities as well, bad enough that my legs almost give out & I’m nearly too weak to walk at times when this hits me. It’s affecting me cognitively as well very strongly. I now realise I probably need all the mesh out in order to avert full blown autoimmune disease(theoretically proposed ofcourse) from completely destroying & ravaging my body at 31. And ofcourse I still look 3 months pregnant at times from umbilical area inflammation/swelling. (And here I was hoping to be married before I got pregnant, even if its with mesh (: if its a boy or a girl mesh I still don’t know though. Lol)

      I have met with both Rosey & Rammy at this point… Both were great & extremely competent when it comes to mesh removal. With Ramshaw being my most viable option at this point & having the most experience I believe.

    • #13942
      drtowfigh
      Keymaster

      parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?

      Dr. Ramshaw, Dr. David Chen, and myself have the most experience with mesh removal.
      I have switched to using the DaVinci robot, as my own study has shown that my patients do better with that.

    • #14141
      marcello71
      Member

      parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?

      I hope this doesn’t offend any other doctors, but I admire & sort of regard Dr David Chen as like the ‘Serpico’ of the hernia mesh industry since he never has any financial disclosures. I mean do other doctors at the conferences ever corner him like pacino saying to him: “Hey Dr Chen, when you don’t take money it makes the rest of us nervous…”? Lol, Only kidding. I’ve got loads of hernia mesh shtick at this point unfortunately(I did stand-up before all this so its my coping mechanism I guess).

      Another symptom I still continue to have is the testicular pain w bruising. So when I see some of these Da Vinci videos where grape skin is peeled off & then sutured back down, I wonder how easy or realistic it is to delamimate or lyse the mesh off of the spermatic cord(testicular vessels & vas deferen) w the robot? I mean why are so many surgeons more willing to dissect, pull apart & de-nervate the spermatic cord w the robot rather then just removing the mesh off of it instead? Dr Towfigh I’ve seen your video of robotic spermatic cord lysis to treat testicular pain & I was blown away, I immediately thought “that’s it, that’s exactly what I & so many other guys w this issue need! Like the lion w the thorn in its paw.” It was quite compelling & I hope more surgeons start taking notice of how capable the robot can be for removal.

    • #14416
      phyrun
      Member

      parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?

      I know this is an old post but reading the topic and horror stories of other mesh patients really scares me. I feel really sorry for those whose lives have been ruined by the mesh. Here’s my experience. So far perhaps I’m lucky but I have inguinal hernia on both left and right side. Operation done on 12/12/16 and now it’s 1/3/2017 so it’s been 3 weeks now. No pain, didn’t even take any medications after the surgery. just the very mild tugging and gas bubble sensation sometimes in the abdomen and groin, sometimes on the inner thighs which occurs once in a while. According to surgery report, Dr used Covidien Mesh ProGrip 15x10cm 70% collagen, 30% polyester. I’m Male, 40 years old. I’m keeping my fingers crossed that I don’t have any chronic pain down the road. Should I be concerned? I’m not sure why the majority of the online chat posting seems to indicate that many people have horrible outcomes from the mesh.

    • #14417
      drtowfigh
      Keymaster

      parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?

      This is fantastic. Thank you for sharing.

      Fortunately, you are in the majority. Though there is a lot of online traffic discussing failures and chronic pain after hernia repair, the majority of patients do quite well, which is why hernia repairs continue as they are. I am glad this rings true for you.

      The more time passes, the less likely you are to have hernia repair-related complications. For inguinal hernias, most problems are obvious in the first few weeks. And almost all by the first 6 months.

    • #14418
      dand
      Participant

      parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?

      +1 to ProGrip phyrun mesh post… I had Robotic large Inguinal Hernia surgery September 15th, needed no pain meds post surgery & so far so good mesh or hernia related.

    • #14419
      phyrun
      Member

      parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?

      To give others some background. My inguinal hernia on my left side is about grape size, the one on my right side is smaller than that. My DR recommended lap, robotic surgery since I got the impression that it’s a low risk procedure. I made the mistake of getting the operation before reading this forum and many forums on the complications that could occur from Mesh. If I had to make the decision again, I would not have had any surgery because I think the risks are greater than the rewards, because for me, my hernia was small and it only bothered me when I did some extensive exercise like squats and deadlifts. Chronic pain for life isn’t worth the trade-off of being able to do those exercises. Fortunately, my outcome has been positive after the operation. It’s been 3 weeks since my op on 12/12/16, I didn’t need any pain med, didn’t need ice for swelling, just took stool softener and that’s it. I’m male, 40 years old, 120 lbs, 5’5″. If I had to do it again and if surgery was a must, I think I would have chosen the Desarda method because all these stories about Mesh are scary. I’m aware that chronic pan could occur with mesh or without, and like I’d said, I would opt to wait and see approach rather than surgery if I had to chance to do it again. I have the Covidien Progrip in me now and these stories are of a big concern down the road. I may not have any problems now, but who knows what will happen years down the road.

    • #14420
      dand
      Participant

      parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?

      For those are interested link to my post:

      http://www.herniatalk.com/hernia-discussion/1432-robotic-inguinal-hernia-surgery-fantastic-post-op.html

    • #14424
      marcello71
      Member

      parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?

      It has been a while since I’ve been on here & pain/symptoms for me are continually worsening. However after seeing these other posts, you should all know that I’ve heard most(>80%) of these mesh surgeries go well & never cause problems or pain in those patients. I just happened to be one of the unfortunate ones I guess, who also didn’t want or need mesh to begin with. But the absolute very last thing I ever want my story to do is to scare another patient…

      This entire post was placed for me to find help removing my mesh & to hopefully educate doctors of what it’s like on our side of the fence from a patient’s perspective. Needless to say my story was met with a healthy amount of skepticism by those I wanted help from & it apparently put fear into the very patients I was trying to help.

      So again if your a patient please don’t read my post & freak out, your all gonna be ok.

      Even though it finally confirmed that I wasn’t alone or just imagining all my already long lasting symptoms, it was still the worst panic & stress of my life the day I started reading all the mesh info online. I don’t ever want to cause that in anyone else ever, mesh works well for the majority of patients, just certainly not for me.

      So don’t worry about the future of your mesh, cause you could die in a car accident tomorrow anyway. Hopefully that cheers you guys up a bit, lol…

      On a separate note, I was right about the robot being the new best approach to inguinal lap mesh removal as more & more removal surgeons are beginning to use it now. I told y’all so, I told ya the robot would be big someday Towfigh (: I’m sick of always being so right.

    • #14426
      phyrun
      Member

      parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?

      I think people do need to be aware and yes be scared of surgery because every surgery carries risks. Some literature puts chronic pain from hernia surgery at 30% https://www.reference.com/health/severe-pain-after-hernia-repair-normal-using-mesh-abdomen-e5a503a94410edfa which in my opinion is too high. Even at 20% is too high. People should be scared given that many hernia be an elective surgery rather than mandatory, like it was in my case. Those percentages aren’t worth it for people like us. I feel sorry for those that got injured when it should not have happened in the first place.

    • #14428
      InPain
      Member

      parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?

      Seems like more and more surgeons use robotic for hernia surgeries and removals of mesh in America, but this is not the case in Europe. I couldnt find anyone who perform robotic mesh removal here. Most surgeons here remove lap mesh through open surgery. I have found a surgeon who can remove my mesh laparoscopically, and he had 0 complications after 12 mesh removals. I have only seen one study and that one had 14 complications after 17 lap mesh removals, and 1 complication after 9 robotic removals. So I don’t know if robotic is better or if it depends on the surgeon.

    • #14430
      drtowfigh
      Keymaster

      parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?

      Intuitive Surgical, the robotics makers, are just now entering the European market. It is way too expensive for most European centers right now.

    • #14431
      drtowfigh
      Keymaster

      parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?

      Phyrun,

      You are correct. 20% is very high. In the studies that show such high percentage, “chronic pain” is defined as “any” pain or symptom 3 or more months after surgery. That includes not only debilitating pain but also a twinge here or there. Debilitating pain is 3%. Most of these also have been shown to diminish by 6 months and 1 year.

      Good points you made.

    • #12336
      dand
      Participant

      parietex progrip removal, an exercise in futility?

      As with any surgery make sure the robotic surgeon has experience with the tool & has many robotic surgeries under his/her belt!

    • #14580
      InPain
      Member

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqjxPskAcMs&t=5s

      “The final Parietex unboxed in this video is the Parietex Progrip. The Parietex Progrip was designed to not need any securing device, such as tacks, sutures, or staples. Instead, the Parietex Progrip has 1000’s of little hooks made of Polylactic Acid (PLA) attached to it. The PLA hooks act just like Velcro to the patient’s tissue. Once the Parietex Progrip has been implanted, it is nearly impossible to remove. Many clients report severe, debilitating pain from the moment the Parietex Progrip is implanted.

      There are even more problems with the Parietex Progrip though. Our lawyers have observed abnormally high infection rates associated with the Parietex Progrip. Hernia mesh infections almost always necessitate the removal of the hernia mesh to rid the infection. This is because hernia meshes are prone to the formation of biofilms, which are nearly resistant to even the strongest I.V. antibiotics. Unfortunately, the Parietex Progrip can be so dangerous to remove that many surgeons simply refuse to reoperate on a patient. As a result, many clients are having to live with an active infection, possibly for the rest of their lives. These are large infections that frequently go systemic. Hernia mesh infections can lead to additional serious injuries, including death.

      Like the Parietex Composite, the Parietex Progrip also had a strong smell of disinfectants upon unboxing.

      It is the opinion of the lawyers at the Hollis Law Firm that the Parietex Progrip is one of the most defective and dangerous hernia mesh products currently on the market!”

      Dr Towfigh and other surgeons on this site: In your experience, is the Parietex ProGrip impossible to remove without making much more damage?? When the Polyacitc Acid is absorbed after 18 months, will it then be possible and easier to remove?

    • #14582
      drtowfigh
      Keymaster

      Thanks for sharing the video on Parietex. In my opinion, it is a very very misleading video and I disagree with much of its content.

      Specifically:
      A) Parietex ProGrip is not impossible to remove. It is no different to remove than any other mesh. I have yet to find a mesh that is “impossible” to remove. And I perform more mesh removal than almost every other surgeon in hernia.
      B) We have not seen the Progrip to be “the most defective and dangerous” hernia mesh on the market. In fact, those of us who are in the know, have remarked that we see a disproportionately lower number of patients with mesh-related chronic pain due to ProGrip as compared to other mesh.

    • #14588
      Mesh
      Member

      Wow! I didn’t know that about Parietex Pro Grip. “You only get one shot at laying it on right?” How do you even know if the surgeon succeeded? Is he going to tell you? “Oh btw I didn’t lay one of your pieces on right, I’m sorry.” Good God.
      They did not think that one through. I would rather use a slicker surface and some dissovable tacks if I were a surgeon.
      Dr Towfigh if you remove mesh more than any other surgeon I’m curious why you even use mesh on patients in the first place?

    • #14604
      drtowfigh
      Keymaster

      Mesh removal remains a rare operation. The grand majority of patients do well with mesh, do not need it removed, and have a better long term outcome with using mesh than non-mesh options. I am hopeful that newer products will reduce the need for mesh removal in even this small subset of patients.

    • #14634
      marcello71
      Member

      Well after I have my progrip removal, I promise to come back & report my outcome as well as just how possible or impossible it was to remove all of it without epigastric vessels being clipped off or nerves being cut. I believe it will be nothing short of an absolute miracle if all of my mesh can be removed. But the part that’s sometimes too hard to remove it from safely is the iliac artery. However I do have a lot of confidence in my removal surgeon, I understand that he’s only trying to fix someone else’s mess & that I’m coming to him already in this boat.

      In fact if my removal surgeon is able to remove all of both my inguinal meshes without having to clip off my inferior epigastrics, without me losing a testicle, sustaining a bladder injury or requiring a vasectomy(from vas def damage); then I hereby proclaim that he be regarded as the greatest mesh removal surgeon alive. Which I will attest to for decades into the future to all other patients I speak to.

      And yes ‘Mesh’ this is true, once they place progrip in the wrong place your screwed like me. My surgeon placed my left inguinal piece too high exposing the bottom lateral edge to my spermatic cord too much. This edge has proceeded to erode into my left cord slowly over the last 24 months(like a saw it feels like at times). All this when I had no real hernias & did not need or want any mesh to begin with. All this & then my original surgeon wanted to put more mesh in(without removing the original mesh mind you) after saying my mesh pain was likely from another hernia instead. All this & he sent me to other surgeons to cover his butt instead of help me.

      Insanity, pure insanity, this is 2017. Is this really what we’ve evolved for? Millions of years of evolution to do this to each other? What if someone had put mesh into Einstein before he was able to publish his first theorem, then left him to rot & figure it out himself for years?

      I will forgive & forget but it’s just sad because afterall this isen’t brain or heart surgery & he could’ve taken it right back out(even though it’s progrip he could’ve tried before it grew in) the second I woke up in shock that he put mesh in.

      I mean what worse torture scenario could there be then implanting a device(3 in my case) inside a young healthy man’s groin(where he can’t get to it or do anything about it himself) that slowly over 2 yrs cuts off his testicle from the inside? Medieval torture had nothing on mesh. Every morning since my mesh was put in I wake up with the same familiar thought, “What fresh hell is this?”

      So no offense & forgive me for saying this but the only people that I believe are truly “in the know” about this product, are the patients that have it in their bodies.

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