News Feed Discussions Successful, good "mesh" stories

  • Successful, good "mesh" stories

    Posted by Good intentions on April 13, 2018 at 8:26 pm

    “Mesh” is typically used to describe all types of procedures and all types of mesh used to repair abdominal hernias. But they can’t all be bad. The success stories will help distinguish the bad from the good. So, here is a thread to relay any information about successful procedures and materials that anyone knows of. The stories might be difficult to come by and details will probably be sparse, but if anyone has them, please share. Second hand stories will work. I will try to collect a few that I remember from the site, and some from other sites.

    I know of one person from a bodybuilding site that said that they had Progrip self-fixating mesh implanted laparoscopically and have reported good results, after 7 months.

    Another reported that he had “Progrip” implanted laparoscopically, apparently the self-fixating type. He is a big proponent of mesh now, because it worked for him. He discounts the stories of failure or chronic pain, even though it’s only been 8 months for him.

    Somebody also reported that they had had open repair with Progrip mesh, not clear which one. “Progrip” is used as a brand name for variations of one type of mesh. He leads a very active life and apparently felt very good as of 1 year and a few months afterward.

    So there does seem to be some hope out there. Progrip Self-Fixating mesh seems to have potential. But, like many stories, these are all short-term. I was even a believer for a few months. It’s the stories after years of “mesh” that will be the most valuable.

    The marketing and sales divisions of these huge companies will continue selling their product whether it’s best for the patient or not. Market forces will have to do their work to get rid of the bad ones. I had Bard Soft Mesh, removed after three years.

    Please share any good stories that you know of,with as many details as possible.

    Watchful replied 7 months, 1 week ago 18 Members · 59 Replies
  • 59 Replies
  • Watchful

    Member
    July 18, 2023 at 6:02 pm

    I don’t follow. You asked for good mesh stories, so I described the ones I know personally, both lap TEP and Lichtenstein.

  • Good intentions

    Member
    July 18, 2023 at 5:51 pm

    Just a followup to point out something I missed – not all mesh repairs are the same. Sorry Watchful but you’ve kind of lost your rigor. Combining open Lichtenstein with laparoscopic TEP mesh. They are completely different methods of repair. The only commonality is the use of mesh. It’s the big trap that everyone falls in to – combining all procedures that involve mesh as “mesh repair” and all different types of mesh as “mesh”. Simplifying the whole complicated situation down to pure tissue versus mesh.

    “I know 5 people who had mesh repair of inguinal hernias. 2 lap TEP, and 3 Lichtenstein.”

  • Watchful

    Member
    July 18, 2023 at 5:49 pm

    My brother-in-law is quite active. Really no issues. He jogs a lot, he climbed some tall mountain in Nepal with my sister. He had the Lichtenstein procedure many years ago.

    One of the lap TEP patients is the son of a colleague. He’s in his early 20s, and had the procedure about a year ago. Active young guy. I chatted with him a few times at the office, no issues or complaints.

    The other lap TEP patient is a neighbor in his 60s. Not a particularly active person, but he does ride his bicycle around the neighborhood. Talked to him many times. No issues. Not sure when he had his surgery exactly, but it was a few years ago.

    I think both tissue repairs and mesh repairs are a huge problem when they go bad and cause chronic pain and/or discomfort. I don’t agree with you that mesh is necessarily worse in this regard. With mesh, removal is at least a possibility (not saying it’s an easy surgery with no repercussions). Many tissue repairs (e.g. Shouldice, Desarda) change your anatomy in an irreversible manner.

  • Good intentions

    Member
    July 18, 2023 at 5:23 pm

    Sorry Watchful, but I don’t believe that anyone actually has “zero” issues after any surgery. The other question that I didn’t ask (you didn’t answer the others) is, are they back to the same level of activity as before? “Fine” is not zero.

    Besides the odds of problems, the magnitude of the corrective efforts is very important. Getting another pure tissue repair after a recurrence is orders of magnitude less significant than a mesh removal.

    Personally, having gone through it, the damage that is possible from a mesh removal is barely comprehensible until it’s happened to you. To surgeons also. People need to consider what could happen if they get a poor result. Odds versus cost of failure.

    We’re all just repeating ourselves now. Let’s get some details. I was finally able to fit into my old pants size, just last week. Soon after mesh implantation I had to go up two inches on waist size to reduce the pressure at the waistband, right below my navel. This did not change after mesh removal, my lower abdomen was like a plastic bowl. My pants have been getting looser and looser over the last few years and I finally pulled the trigger and bought a new pair of shorts. It feels so good to not have all of that extra fabric flopping around to actually feel like my pants fit correctly. It’s been over eight years.

  • Watchful

    Member
    July 18, 2023 at 4:49 pm

    I have asked the 3 who didn’t have any issues enough questions to believe that they feel normal. One of them is my brother-in-law, and my sister never heard him complain either. As a result of this questioning, I found out about the rare minor pain in one of the Lichtenstein cases.

    I know it’s hard for people like us who had bad results to believe that people can have zero issues with the same procedure that gave us so much grief, but that’s how it is.

  • Good intentions

    Member
    July 18, 2023 at 4:34 pm

    Do any of these five people tell you that you should have got a mesh repair? That would be the true test. Not “I feel fine”.

    My experience over life has been that people, men especially, want to tell people when they made a good decision. And downplay their poor decisions. It’s just how we are. I get the impression that these five people aren’t telling you the whole story. The surgeon has inherent bias.

    How long have they had the repairs? That is another part of the long equation. And what do they do? How old are they? etc.

    Just for fun – by your numbers there is a 20% chance of neurectomy after a mesh repair. 33.3% after Lichtenstein. Ha ha.

  • Watchful

    Member
    July 18, 2023 at 4:14 pm

    I know 5 people who had mesh repair of inguinal hernias. 2 lap TEP, and 3 Lichtenstein. The lap TEP guys and one of the Lichtenstein are doing fine – no issues. The second Lichtenstein is doing fine, but has minor rare pain. The third Lichtenstein is actually a general surgeon himself. He had pain and needed a neurectomy. He’s doing fine now. I don’t think any of them would be interested in posting here, though.

  • Good intentions

    Member
    July 18, 2023 at 3:51 pm

    I am bumping this thread just to keep it alive. I didn’t intend for it to happen but Matt posted about his successful mesh removal in #33314 above. Which, considring the way things are going in the repair field, could be an active Topic.

    Again, I hate to pile on. If anybody knows somebody who feels good enough about their mesh implant to get on the Forum and tell people about it, along with any extra details like the surgeon, method, and materials, please convince them to sign on just for at least one post. There should be hundreds of thousands of patients out there, there have to be a few that can give people, surgeons and patients both, hope.

  • Good intentions

    Member
    July 6, 2023 at 3:48 pm

    Rejuvenating this Topic from the past. There is a link to a bodybuilding forum that has a long thread about hernia repair in it, in one of the posts above. Some of the bodybuilders report good results. Overall, sometimes I think that activities that are high in repetitive exertions, like running or playing sports, cause more problems than extreme exertions at low repetition, like weight training. I was way out on the high repetition and extreme effort end of the activity scale.

    I haven’t read back through this thread but there might something of value in it.

  • Matt

    Member
    December 29, 2022 at 10:34 am

    For the record, I recently had robotic inguinal mesh removal which I consider a complete success. I had lived years with chronic groin pain and other unexplained urologic and bowel symptoms. About half a dozen doctors couldn’t (or wouldn’t) attribute my worsening health to my hernia mesh. Arguably, many things can contribute to abdominal discomfort, so I understand why doctors are reluctant to diagonse mesh as a cause. Statistically, a very small number of patients have actual mesh problems, but when someone does, it is an uphill climb to get it recognized and resolved. Mesh removal is a considerable risk, and proceeding with it might complicate things even more. In my particular case, my symptoms just kept getting worse so I took the leap of mesh removal by a highly qualified surgeon. Once my mesh was removed all my issues went away and it dramatically changed my life. I feel very fortunate. If I could go back in time to my original hernia consult, I would have done things very differently. Unlike the pamphlet implies, hernia surgery is actually a big deal. Get second or third opinions from different healthcare providers, find an experienced surgeon with a wide range of skill sets and a genuine interest in patient outcome.

  • Good intentions

    Member
    October 26, 2021 at 11:57 am

    My definition of success, for this Topic, is the return to the life that the person had before the hernia, at several years after surgery. No chronic pan, and full physical function. Of course, there is an in-between point, where success can’t be determined. But, often, there is a point where it is clear that success will never be achieved.

    The distinction would be in comparison to the medical profession definition of success used today, which is no immediate complications, ability to return to work quickly, and no recurrence within a short time frame.

    I posted the recent reply to the BodyBuilder.com forum because that person reported he was 100% back to normal, no pain, and full functionality, at four years after. Since it was a non-mesh repair, his odds for many more years of normal life are very good.

  • Alephy

    Member
    October 26, 2021 at 12:29 am

    I forgot to mention that I have also a feeling that a successful story with mesh could end up being not so after x years, and this also should be factored in…

  • Alephy

    Member
    October 26, 2021 at 12:12 am

    I am a bit puzzled by the definition of success after a mesh surgery…

    There are many types of mesh, different materials, procedures, the anatomy of certain areas varies a lot, surgeons have different skills etc: it seems to me there are just too many variables!

    But most importantly, depending on the person’s age, lifestyle etc, the same set of values for the variables above can lead to different outcomes: an older person might consider the procedure successful , while a younger athletic one will face problems due to the sports and physical activities performed…

    ps: notice that I am not even mentioning the recurrence rate

  • Good intentions

    Member
    October 25, 2021 at 4:58 pm

    Here is a recent report from a different forum about a successful Desarda repair. Four years ago, and still doing very well. Performed by Dr. Tomas in Florida.

    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=133353003&p=1649596363&viewfull=1#post1649596363

  • Good intentions

    Member
    November 25, 2018 at 1:23 am

    I had that problem. It has gone away since having the mesh removed, everything is back close to normal. I think that the inflammatory response affects surrounding tissues, including nerves involved in other bodily functions. In my case, the affected blood flow was not a general problem, fixable with a pill, it only affected the corpus cavernosum. In other words, it wasn’t an excitation problem, it was a physical, call it mechanical, problem.

    The doctors I talked to did not comprehend what I was describing or how it could be, even two urologists. But the evidence before and after, before mesh and after mesh, is very clear to me. We’re all part of a big uncontrolled and unmonitored experiment.

  • Damien10

    Member
    November 24, 2018 at 7:48 pm

    Can inguinal hernia mesh prevent blood flow to the penis or even damage nearby blood vessels that are necessary for erections etc? I’m not familiar with where the mesh is placed and its proximity to surrounding blood vessels. Is this possible?

  • tenreasy

    Member
    November 14, 2018 at 3:34 pm
    quote Chaunce1234:

    Thank you for reporting back your experience and the name of your surgeon.

    Out of curiosity, was your hernia painful prior to surgery?

    Keep us updated on your progress!

    I noticed the hernia in April when it was very small. No pain at that time. It was progressively getting bigger. I’d say this was some discomfort once in the while. It was enough discomfort where I stopped running. A few weeks prior to surgery I had a more painful sharp pain that lasted a second or two.

  • Chaunce1234

    Member
    November 13, 2018 at 2:10 am
    quote tenreasy:

    I had laparoscopic robotic surgery done 8 weeks ago for an inguinal hernia on the left side. After the surgery I had minimal pain; only needed tylenol once in a while. I am pain free – back to 100%. Started working out ago a few days ago. My surgeon was Dr. Mark Toyama in Chicago (Northwestern Hospital). I highly recommend him.

    Thank you for reporting back your experience and the name of your surgeon.

    Out of curiosity, was your hernia painful prior to surgery?

    Keep us updated on your progress!

  • Chaunce1234

    Member
    November 13, 2018 at 2:08 am
    quote Good intentions:

    Here’s a story I just came across. It’s not a mesh story but it is about a surgeon whose name comes up. Dr. Meyers of the Vincera Institute. A young soccer player, Kellyn Acosta, who just got selected to the US Mens National team had surgery on February 22 and is almost back to full speed.

    I see these stories and often wonder if “sports hernia” is used to cover all types of abdominal repair procedures these athletes have. I would guess that they report pain and the doctors do whatever they need to do to get them back to full performance.

    https://www.oursportscentral.com/services/releases/kellyn-acosta-undergoes-successful-procedure-to-repair-sports-hernia/n-5297606

    https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2018/09/05/kellyn-acostas-international-hopes-colorado-rapids-were-best-move

    Not to drag this thread off topic too much, but Dr Meyers is well known for returning professional athletes back to their respective games. From the standpoint of the pro sports team, each player is a significant investment worth huge sums of money to their business, so there must be something to the approach that Dr Meyers takes that they trust. And yes, Dr Meyers repairs regular groin hernias as well as core muscle injuries / “sports hernia”.

    One way you can see the many pro athletes who are or have been treated by Dr Meyers is to use Google News search, go to the Sports section, and search for “Dr William Meyers” or “sports hernia.” If you follow pro sports, athletes you know and watch every week will often show up.

    And somewhat funny but interesting nonetheless, the next time you’re in the grocery check out line, pay attention to the tacky tabloids with non-airbrushed half-naked celebrities / athletes pictures splashed across the covers, you’ll see a lot of open hernia repair incision scars on those abdomens. Of course it’s harder to see laparoscopic scars, but I’m sure they are there too…

  • tenreasy

    Member
    November 12, 2018 at 7:09 pm

    I had laparoscopic robotic surgery done 8 weeks ago for an inguinal hernia on the left side. After the surgery I had minimal pain; only needed tylenol once in a while. I am pain free – back to 100%. Started working out ago a few days ago. My surgeon was Dr. Mark Toyama in Chicago (Northwestern Hospital). I highly recommend him.

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