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Thin people and mesh
Dr. Towfigh,
How about a BMI of 22, along with a percent body fat of 17.4? Would they have an increased risk of mesh problems? -
16 Replies
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I agree with good intentions on this
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I was just offering a counterpoint. I think that many surgeons and medical institutions have been captured by the powerful marketing programs of the medical device makers. So you can’t just trust the surgeon who seems to know what they’re doing. That’s why I offered my own real world example.
And, specific to your post, I think that harm can be done by reassuring people about something that is actually very risky, with a very high personal cost if they get bad results. People should be very fearful about this supposedly simple operation.
I would say that I am playing “devil’s advocate” but I think that the devil already controls the situation. I’m on the other side.
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[USER=”2029″]Good intentions[/USER] You fit the profile of people who “demand” data but will not lift a finger to find anything by themselves. I have no interest to argue. If you have read my earlier posts or at least tried to type my name in the search box….
I have repeatedly said – do not go to a guy with a hammer in hand who is looking to drive nails. I have no clue how you thought I am selling a surgeon or his tactics.
Alas…. Good luck to you. Au revoir.
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WasinTN, you are repeating much of the marketing words of the mesh industry. Skill of the surgeon is most important, etc. Surgeons are trained in how to speak to their patients to get them to accept the operation. So demeanor in the exam room doesn’t tell anything about odds of success either. Your comments about doing your own research are valid, but without long-term, verifiable results, the research has little value.
If I recall, you had your procedure recently. You can find views like yours all over the internet, people hoping that they made the right decision, and assuming success after just a few months, then offering their advice. I did the same thing, telling people to talk to their surgeon if they had issues after mesh implantation, and to expect a long slow recovery. But, my long-term result did not support the decision I made, even though my surgeon met all of the best available criteria, used state-of-the-art materials, and state-of-the-art methods.
Really, the best that you can do to help people out here is to describe what exactly that you had done and when, with details, and how, exactly, you are doing today. Compare who you are now, emotionally, mentally, and physically, with who you were before the hernia. Not before the surgery, but before you had the hernia, when you were healthy. Are you doing the same things as when you were healthy, or are you still taking care of your malady? I knew that I had made a mistake when I realized that my whole life revolved around taking care of my mesh/abdomen. It was all I thought about from the moment I woke up in the morning. I was half the man I had been before and felt like I was just waiting to die.
I’m not trying to start an argument. But I read and re-read what you wrote and couldn’t find much hard substance to use in a decision. No numbers. And really, should this problem be as big as it is? If it was a “skill” issue you would expect specific surgeons to be getting sued out of the field for malpractice. But the reality is that chronic pain with mesh implantation is “normal”. It is state-of-the-art. The actual odds of having it though are concealed or unknown, and efforts to define it are avoided. That’s what patients doing research need to know. If they knew the odds many would make a different decision.
Good luck. Post up a description of how you’re doing today and how long it’s been. Who the surgeon was. At least people can use those specific details to possibly have the same exact procedure done, if the long-term results are what they are hoping for.
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[USER=”1453″]MO[/USER], I have observed this while going through the IH pain, selecting a surgeon and going through the surgery. Most people do not worry about who the surgeon is. First mistake. The skill of surgeon is THE MOST IMPORTANT since this is sensitive area, mesh insertion and positioning and all those need better skillset. A general surgeon who claims to have done “many” surgeries may not be able to do IH surgery correctly. He may be a good surgeon of something else but when it comes to IH choose wisely. How to choose wisely? See the Indiana Jones movie where Harrison Ford goes and picks up the glass to drink the sacred water and the Knight in shining armor tells him “You have chosen wisely,” or “he has chosen poorly” just kidding.. research can help, forums can help and other friends’ help and word of mouth is good too. Talk to ask as many questions. After all it is your body and a sensitive area and you do not want to spend rest of your life with pain.
And when such surgery goes awry, people THEN come to forums and say this mesh caused me troubles, screwed my life blah blah. Yes I understand we are all limited by the way Insurance pays, in picking up doctors and surgeons but we do have a choice. For example for me insurance paid the surgeon and hospital only. The hotel bills and airfare for 4 people (Entire family said they must accompany me) and all that associated stuff I had to shell out. So be it, I thought. I spent money and do not even remember about it now. I think I took good decision before going to Dr. Goodyear after research, checking, talking to people in person, email etc. I met one surgeon locally and when I asked him the material the mesh is made of, he was scratching his head and I had to prompt him – was it ultra… Then he said yes yes that one. I did not feel comfortable at the way he talked or dressed. I spoke to Dr. G over phone before going and his reputation was good, his answers were straight and short and assured. A good IH surgeon can and should be able to talk with authority and that should be visible in his talk and actions and in the number of IH surgeries (s)he did. Right?
I met Dr. G at 8:30 Am, he looked at my IH and said yes, this one we can fix and after 2 hours I was out of hospital with him showing me thumbs up. He came to my hotel room (no kidding!) next day to see me and said all was well. I flew out 3 days later and never saw him again. I do email his office and he replies if it is a serious thing. I do not even feel the mesh. Do not assume I am the best, but I did what I knew I could do. I was scared to death to go under knife but hey, they wheeled me in put nasal cannoli and next thing I knew was waking up outside 2 hours later. LOL
Anyways, back to problems with mesh. So after surgery if someone has a problem, now everything – stomach ache, pain in hip, back front, head ache and some urinary problems and even indigestion is attributed to mesh. Ha! I agree mesh might cause problems if not done well and some people have mesh material allergies but those need to be sorted out *before* going to surgeon and putting the soft parts in his hands. Surgeon is NOT GOD and can make mistakes and may hide them to save his face but what about our homework? Have we done that before going to the surgeon?
Also meshless surgeries (Desarda, Kong etc) have their own problems and we do not know how good they are. May be they are the best but I have read on Dr. G forum that Desarda guy developed hernia again. I choose mesh because my entire family had IH – father, brother etc. So it is genetic and meshless surgery might re-develop IH again. If it comes back, then what? I remember reading someone developed a urine block (cannot piss at all and had to be taken to ER and tube inserted via penis hole.. imagine that and you will faint). I asked Dr. G the same question if I could have it. His answer was – if I have bladder or Urine problems to worry then let him know. I had none and after surgery when they wheeled me out, they gave me cola to drink and within minutes I had to go to bathroom. While I was pissing I remembered the question I asked Dr. G about urine block. I laughed right in the bathroom since I never experienced any problems. It was a free flow.:-)
So what I am saying – once surgery is done, many things can go wrong or right and all wrong things may or may not be due to mesh. Once you select to go to surgeon, tell him EVERYTHING about your problems – head to foot, diabetic, hypertension and even a cut on your finger – just let him know you have a condition and see what he will say about it.
Other thing about people who had surgery and start lifting weights. Yes you may be able to lift weights and all but listen to your body. Once you IH surgery it does not mean you can lift mountains. You have a weakness in tissue and it will prevail – over your life time. You can have quality life but can you become Ahlawld Shwarzneggar? I do not know if that works out for each and every person. let it heal. and heal well. I would say 8 to 10 weeks is a good time to relax and then before lifting that mountain let your surgeon decide if you can do that. Most people say – I am such a fitness freak I must run or job etc. My foot I will say. You need to first heal well before your freakiness kicks in. Or you will suffer. This happened to NBA Star Grant Hill. He had some surgery and surgeon told him to rest but someone else decided that he was ready to play. Surgeon got furious and Hills career was cut short or over. Something like that. You can read it in his autobiography. His was not IH surgery but something else. Any surgery needs healing and healing well. Rushing it will only deteriorate things.
Anyways mesh surgery may be good or bad for one person but after mesh surgery, every problem that develops in body cannot be attributed to mesh and mesh alone. Well that’s my non-medical point of view – from what I learned.
You can have your own view. No harm done.
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You wrote, “It is funny how everything can somehow be correlated to Mesh.” Please tell me more things that are incorrectly correlated to mesh.
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It is funny how everything can somehow be correlated to Mesh. Thin or heavy, how does that effect mesh? IOW, heavy person may put some kind of pressure on mesh but thin ones have an added advantage that mesh can help ideally. The question really made me laugh.
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quote Chaunce1234:This is great to hear. Please keep us updated on your progress.
Also, can you share the name of your surgeon? And if you know any additional details on the type of surgery (robotic, type of mesh, fixation, etc) if you know them?
Dr. Mark Toyama in Chicago. Robotic Laparoscopic. Not sure of the specific mesh.
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quote tenreasy:I do not know my bmi. I am 6′ 0.5″. Weigh about 165lbs so I am definitely thin. I had a inguinal laparoscopic hernia repair with mesh done in September. No problems at all. Full recovery. Feel great. No hernia.
This is great to hear. Please keep us updated on your progress.
Also, can you share the name of your surgeon? And if you know any additional details on the type of surgery (robotic, type of mesh, fixation, etc) if you know them?
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We don’t have science yet to back up what I recommend. But BMI 22 is normal and I would not typically consider that a relative contraindication to mesh. Even with low fat percentage.
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My theory on why thin people might have problems with chronic pain from mesh is that thin people are generally active people. In other words it’s not the thinness, it’s the activity level. It’s why professional athletes avoid all forms of mesh. There might be forms of mesh that work for active people. But they are undefined.
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I agree. The percent body fat is now about 16.5 %.
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BMI is known to be a very poor indicator of body fat, although many assume that’s what it shows. It’s just the ratio of weight to height. More muscle also increases BMI. The industry likes to use it because it captures most obesity, but it’s a sloppy measure, of anything. It’s an example of the over-simplification of complex situations. Like labeling all of the numerous forms of mesh together as “mesh”. Both are classic signs of bureaucracy, dumbing things down to fit the forms.
https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/educational/lose_wt/BMI/bmicalc.htm
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I do not know my bmi. I am 6′ 0.5″. Weigh about 165lbs so I am definitely thin. I had a inguinal laparoscopic hernia repair with mesh done in September. No problems at all. Full recovery. Feel great. No hernia.
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I don’t think BMI off 22 is considered especially thin…I could be wrong
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Thin people shouldn’t even think about mesh..:}..My humble opinion only !
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