Bard 3D Mesh – surgeon opinions
10/16/2017 at 1:48 pm #11081
Both surgeons I have consulted with appear to use Bard 3D mesh for many of their patients. I am aware of the complications several on this forum have had with this product, and the general criticism. But I also understand it is extremely popular with surgeons and has been around a long time with lots of good results. Just wondering if surgeons might chime in with their thoughts, and perhaps even address some of the criticism about it being more likely to fold over, etc.
10/17/2017 at 10:26 pm #15160NFG12Participant
I had 2 Bard 3Dmax mesh, 1 left side for an indirect hernia and 1 right side for femoral hernia. Both hernias were very small and were found on a ct scan and I could have just watched and waited forever without getting them repaired and if I knew then what I know now I would never ever had any mesh put in my body, it is not intended for implantation in the human body. I would have just had them fixed when they actually started to present a problem and I would have found a surgeon that could have just sewn them up without any mesh. My life was great before getting the hernias repaired and after it has been very tough. I had both sides of that 3d crap removed because it was just causing me pain that I never had before and it started folding on the left side also like it usually does and this mesh states it doesn’t need to be fixated but the surgeon even fixated mine with 2 big tacks and it still folded anyways. They designed it for the shape of the inguinal canal but no 2 bodys are the same so how can they even agree with that, it has a cup shape and that’s why it folds up and there no way to know what will happen down the road with any mesh, it shrinks, migrates, attaches to things it should not. In the end the choice is yours but if your hernia is not presenting a problem I would just watch and wait. Also 3d max has been recalled already but somehow bard got it back on the shelves. There is 3d max heavyweight and 3dmax lightweight, I was 165 and im 5’11 and the removal surgeons said my hernias were small and did not to be fixed right away and that using heavyweight mesh on me was insane!
Good luck to you!
10/18/2017 at 2:10 am #15164JnomeshParticipant
And my mesh wasn’t fixated at all Bc you don’t have to with the 3D maxx. And mine completely folded into a hard ball. Understand that if you have your mesh fixated with racks or staple or sutures they can hit nerves and cause all sorts of problems. And if they don’t understand that mesh shrinks on average 30%-50% so as the mesh shrinks and is fixated there is a lot of pressure that can ensue. If you don’t use tacks staples or sutures then you avoid all that but a higher risk that the mesh can fold or migrate and do all sorts of undesirable stuff.
i read an interesting research article online that showed it can take a very long time for scar tissue to really solidify the mesh. So if you should get a bad cough or constioation it can actually move and change the shape of the mesh which then over time will solidify into that shape. It’s just a potential mess.
ive also been reading many research papers online that show the recurrence rate to be lower than tissue repairs outside of specialty centers like the shouldice hospital.
so they are actually admitting that if a tissue repair is done by a expert, like the shouldice hospital, the tissue repair is superior. The shouldice hospital reports that there recurrence rates are way less than 1%!!!! And chronic pain well below than 1%.
so to me this is just unbelievable evidence that people need a Chiice here in the states. Where is our shouldice hospital. The focus should be in training surgeons on tissue repairs again without the need for only mesh repairs.
This just smells of big pharma.
People need a choice and then can make there own decision on mesh vs no mesh. The fact that the pure tissue repair has slowly become extinct is just a poor reflection on our health care system.
there is indisputable eveidence that pure tissue repair done by a surgeon whose expertise is in this procedure is way more effective than mesh for most people. Sad.
10/18/2017 at 12:38 pm #15167
Thanks, all. Appreciate you sharing your personal experiences.
10/18/2017 at 2:23 pm #15169Good intentionsParticipant
I’ve written this before, but if I was convinced that it was time to get the hernia repaired, I would find somebody that you trust who has had a hernia similar to yours repaired (distinguish between direct and indirect, they’re different), and have that exact procedure done by the same surgeon. Don’t be part of the experimenting that’s going on. There are still recalls happening, on mesh products that have been released to the public, for fundamental flaws in design. They don’t work in the real world.
That was the rationale that I used when I had mine repaired, but my reference person was a surgeon who had had a hernia repaired, but was convinced that the new ways were better. He guided me away from his successful procedure toward the new ways. He meant well but even he didn’t know.
10/18/2017 at 5:13 pm #15170
Thanks. My understanding is that doctors/surgeons sometimes aren’t 100% sure if a hernia is indirect or direct until they operate, so that could make things tricky when it comes to finding someone with similar surgery. Plus, unless you ask everyone you meet, patient confidentiality would also make it almost really hard to find someone with a similar experience and then use that same surgeon. While a lot of people have had these surgeries, I’ve only found about 4 friends so far that have had them. I think it’s a great idea, but just seems impossible. And I find everyone I ask doesn’t seem to know exactly what product was used or what type of inguinal hernia they had. Seems most just don’t ask these questions, or perhaps just don’t remember.
The one thing I do like about the surgeon I was considering using is that he brought up all the different types of mesh and the fact that he has sales people constantly bombarding him with new products all the time and he’s constantly rejecting them because he likes to use tried and true products.
Which brings me back to the 3DMAX mesh. It seems that the product actually hasn’t been recalled (except for maybe a small number of shipments that had mislabeled ‘left’ vs ‘right’ mesh pieces back in ’08 – not because they were defective or harmful). Which of course doesn’t necessarily mean anything. But just thought I’d mention that. Someone can correct me if I missed something. I also know that there are a couple different types of the 3DMax, but I think it’s not really heavy weight versus light weight, but more like regular weight versus super light weight. And there are some concerns that the latter could lead to more likelihood of recurrence in some people. I think the regular 3DMax is average compared to most mesh in terms of thickness and weight. And it’s apparently been in use for a long time. 10 or 15 years I think. Again, clearly there are some people that have had problems (sometimes major) that had this type of mesh, but it’s apparently one of the most popular and most often used. This will certainly lead to more people having issues compared to other brands. Though interestingly that link you provided seemed to show the most satisfaction with the 3DMax. I actually called my potential surgeon and have asked him if he uses 3DMax most often and if that’s what he was intending to use on me. Will see what he says.
Your post did remind me that I also need to reach out to the authors of that link you provided and ask about that chart. Maybe I’ll do that now.
You say he guided you away from his successful procedure. What kind of procedure and product did he use for you again, if you don’t mind me asking?
10/18/2017 at 5:41 pm #15171Good intentionsParticipant
I ended up with full coverage of both sides using Bard Soft mesh. Pubic bone to pubic bone and down to the bladder. The “cover all of the possible future hernia sites” approach. In hind sight, more focus on future recurrence than quality of life of the patient. Very conservative approach, professionally.
Don’t overlook your own physical characteristics. Even Dr. Towfigh has repeated the somewhat anecdotal view, as my surgeon has also, that low body fat people tend to have more problems with mesh, and that there is a view out there that lightweight mesh is best for them. Anybody, please correct me if I’m wrong or have misquoted. There are different 3D devices, some light weight. I mentioned early on that my surgeon had planned to use a light weight mesh but had decided on Bard Soft Mesh after seeing the defect. Maybe he had planned to use the light weight 3D device on me, but switched.
That link I provided was really meant, even by the authors, to show the improvement of survey techniques. It’s only 136 samples, from 9 years ago. I would not put much weight on to the data provided at all. It shows though, that there’s a weakness in the feedback cycle to the surgeons and the industry.
10/18/2017 at 6:51 pm #15172
I see. Interesting. I hadn’t heard of cases where mesh was used across the entire area. That’s perhaps another thing I should bring up with surgeon. Sounded like if he thought other side was weak or there was a distinct hernia, he would use another piece of mesh rather than one large piece. But I would be interested if he’s ever done that for any reason.
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