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Shouldice vs Kang surgery experience
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On the contrary you can be applauded. Did you read the comments to her piece? In totality, we learn a lot from it. I appreciated the post because I haven’t seen such before for both the wretchedness of the doc and then the info from the outpouring of comments. Don’t rush your decision unless of course your doc tells you. Apparently there are a lot of people who manage well despite hernia. I think you are from the UK. Did you catch the recent post from a UK-er who appeared to find a great doc in Germany? He was gleeful how attractive the option was for someone from UK.
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I’m a bit ashamed of posting the link now but anyway it did strike me at the time that her views on non mesh would be clouded by the fact she does mesh.. a case of well she would say that wouldn’t she, to paraphrase that UK legal case quote from years back.
Getting back to shouldice or Kang… That’s the nub of it for me at present and I can’t quite decide which would be best for me. I’m not good at decisions and this is a big one which makes it harder still.
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She’s disgraceful. Her peers ought to sanction her. She has sour grapes because she works as a general surgeon who likely earns less than her specialist counterpart and maybe has a more demanding job. She rationalizes why her job is better however by nearly slandering Shouldice doctors using questionable evidence.
She is an example how we laypeople can overestimate the intelligence of doctors. Note she gives lip service to following fact-based practice, yet contradicts herself by criticizing Shouldice by false or frivolous claims. She lacks the critical awareness or mindfulness that we would expect from a medical professional.
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I have read that surgeon’s long blog post before and have problems with a lot of it. I may write a more detailed reply later, but I’ll say two things for now:
1. She ignores that the surgical community has not ‘moved on’ because the Shouldice method has been judged an inferior repair…in fact, it seems to have moved on primarily due to outside influences and pressures to public healthcare systems.
2. She is largely not approaching this from a patient perspective. The bulk of her criticisms are irrelevant for many individual patients, especially to those who meets Shouldice’s patient criteria.
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I agree Good Intentions, it’s so difficult to know what is best. For my part Im thinking non mesh is better for me but then one day it’s shouldice the next Kang. It gets very confusing. And already feeling apprehensive about surgery just clouds the issue further.
I didnt pay too much attention to that blogger as she did seem keen to push mesh, so no surprise she didn’t write supprtive of non mesh.
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Hey, no need to thank me for anything, I’m just happy there’s a discussion going and people can get some information as a result.
I quickly read through that link, and I don’t know… She recommends mesh surgery… I’m not a medical professional, but I strongly oppose mesh repairs based on anecdotes I’ve read from patients, as well as based on my own experience. With recurrence rates being so low for Shouldice, Kang, etc. there’s no reason to opt for a mesh.
I see she brought up the point of the length of stay at Shouldice, and I think that varies a lot from patient to patient. I know I stayed at least 2 nights at Shouldice, and my “roommate” I guess you’d call him, who was a firefighter, also stayed at least that long. So if that’s the norm at Shouldice still, I’d definitely say Kang has an advantage in that regard since patients are able to go home 1 hour after surgery (as was my case), or stay the night if they wish.
As for the Korean age, when you’re born in Korea, they consider that to be 1 year old, and you age every New Year. So since I was born Dec. 1987, the next month, I’d be 2 years old. Therefore, my Korean age is almost always 2 years above my actual age, and I use that age over here, which is why I got the surgery year wrong by 2. I’m not sure there is any country that reduces your age unfortunately!
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Here is the link for the article above in case anyone is interested. Being, relatively, new to this forum if my posting contravenes any forum rules. Please just delete it. Thank you.
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Hello Colin thanks for coming back on and clarifying, I really appreciate your post/s.
I’m not sure if there have been any advancements, I’ve just read an article from a Canadian, hernia and general, surgeon, feels the shouldice Canada results are skewed a bit because in the surgeons view, shouldice is selective about who it performs the surgery on. In their the “healthy”, apart from hernia. The surgeon was also critical that shouldice Canada doesn’t follow up, patients, more long term than it does. So disappointed clients years later won’t show as anything but successes as they were pleased to start with.
I don’t know if that’s all true.
At least in your case shouldice Canada has been a success. And it looks like the kang one too.
The Korean age? How does that work? Is there any around the world that would make me younger?
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Sorry, my math was wrong when I calculated the date (I was calculating using my Korean age which puts me 2 years older). I turned 13 in Dec. 2000. So the surgery was in 2001. Not a significant difference though.
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Just to clarify, I wasn’t yet alive in 1970. My Shouldice surgery was in 1999 – still quite some time ago, but almost 30 years ahead of the time being mentioned here.
I believe I have mentioned as well that I have had no major issues after my Shouldice surgery, and it definitely was a great success. I also haven’t thus far had any issues with the Kang surgery since fully recovering, and I have been back to my regular life. But like pinto mentioned, it’s only been a few months.
Out of curiosity, I wonder what the differences between a 1999 and 2021 Shouldice operation would be. Does anyone know where I can find information about what improvements have been made?
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Brilliant Pinto, that answer was very thought provoking. Got me thinking anyway!
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@William Bryant, gracious of you to say sorry. Thank you. My message was as much for Colin as for you because originally, way back when, I don’t think he understood my point about comparison making and may have taken it personally. So I didn’t want the “intentional” matter to reinforce that. Let me clarify please.
You suggested prolene might be an advancement on steel suture demonstrating that over time technology can improve medical practice. The Shouldice treatment Colin received in 1970 (approx.) is likely not the same as that done today.(Shouldice is also not a unified method: variants exist.) It has likely improved in some way. Because Colin expressed some disfavor comparatively with Shouldice, his comparison is therefore biased. The comparison was not equivalently made because the other surgery method was from 2021! It’s apples and oranges.
Furthermore, I never stated nor implied that comparison should not be made. As Colin later stated, he did not know his Shouldice treatment likely used steel suturing, which he now attributes the steel to his periodic tinges felt. Those tinges may have influenced his apparent disfavor with the Shouldice. In short, the basis of this present thread is faulty–it sets Shouldice up as a “strawman” in comparison to another surgery method (even if not intended!). It is irrefutable: an already disfavored older version of Shouldice is compared with a different surgery method of today.
Yes, compare the two methods or any others you want, but do so fairly. And yes, too, look at Colin’s experiences with both methods. That’s fine but again do so fairly. I think Colin’s purpose was simply to say, “Hey, I had both operations. Ask me whatever you like about it.” Of course very interesting and useful but what also came out–whether intended or not–was some misdirection by pitting the two approaches against each other unfairly.
Here’s something that probably many of you overlooked: Colin’s Shouldice passed the test of time: No recurrence. How about the other method? We don’t know yet: Colin’s operation was just months ago. Also, Shouldice has a lot of verifiable research studies in support. The other method does not.
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And even better that Colin still posted all this time later when asked questions.
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Sorry Pinto I didn’t mean to imply you meant Colin’s “bias” was intentional.
Whether the shouldice technique has changed at all is an unknown, apparently. It may have changed, it may not have done. It cant just be assumed it has. And even if it has changed it may not have been for the better!
So unless we can find someone who has had both Kang and Shouldice operations with only a short time between them, Colin’s experience is pretty unique and I appreciate his time posting it.
Albeit I fully take on board your point about the time difference between the two. But then what should be the ideal time difference for comparisons? 1 minute, 1 month, 1 year, 1 decade? Simultaneously?
And then is it fair to compare if one is carried out by the inventor and the other by someone other than the person responsible for it’s existence.Basically Colin’s comparison is about the best we have got and are likely to get.
But I always enjoy reading your posts so thanks for your comments too.
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@William Bryant, in apparent reference to my point about Colin’s comparison, you wrongly imply I stated his bias was intentional. I never said nor implied it. Actually your recent remark about prolene proves my point. I agree his experiences are quite interesting and useful–indeed–but as I tried to point out technology over 30 years surely has advanced Shouldice in some way. (Your example of dental gas/injection is inapplicable because those techniques do not separate methodology; whereas this thread as titled has methodologies in contrast.) Thus Shouldice of 2021 should be the focal point not that of 1970 (approx.). As long as medical methods are fairly compared then all will be well I’m sure. Thank you.
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From what i know, Dr Kang uses pds suture which are slow absorbable (130-180 days to fully absorb)
I am a korean american looking to get dr kang’s surgery once the pandemic ends. I will probably update once i get one. However, there is a story written by a korean woman on her blog about her experience with the surgery. She became pregnant 1 year after surgery and gave birth through c-section. According to her, her hernia did not reoccur even after holding a baby inside her.
Do what you will with that info -
Actually Pinto, for me, if Colin’s experiences of two different surgeries were hidden in other posts, not sure it would be as easy to see. I’m finding it difficult searching back to things I’ve read in posts that I’d like to remember… for instance:-
I read things to ask UK non mesh surgeon, think it was about cutting cremaster nerve in a thread – not able to find it again.Also in another were the supplements that had be taken prior to operation.
There can’t be many people who have had 2 different non mesh operations so it was good to hear from someone who has. I dint think there was any intentional bias anymore than there would be if I said “gas” at dentist when I was 8 but injection in my 30s, I found injection better for me.
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Thanks MarkT
Google suggests prolene is probably less likely to cause a reaction.
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Maybe its an impossible dream?
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Thanks Johnso I’ve read that medical stainless steel uses about 8% nickel
I dont know I have a nickel allergy for sure but surface skin reaction to metal items suggests some metal items cause rash, itching and small sore areas on me
I can’t believe no allergy testing is undertaken. Seems a bit lax.
Also seems every way I turn there’s a problem.
If I react badly to steel/nickel it seems to rule out shouldice Canada as once the sutures are in, I’m assuming it’s unsafe to take out?
Now I’m looking for non mesh with no nerve cutting and no metallic sutures… Any suggestions or recommendations anyone?
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