Jnomesh
Forum Replies Created
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It’s important to know that very highly regarded hernia surgeons does not mean that they are very good surgeons when it comes to possible hernia mesh issues.
most surgeons don’t recognize issues with mesh unless they find a recurrence or classic nerve pain symptoms.
i love in NYC and saw some of the most highly regarded surgeons as well as multiprocessor scans and MRI’s and all said nothing was wrong with the mesh.
One snipped me off to pain management
the other told me to get a back massage and a third told me there was now way to remove the mesh-that it would be like takeoff a pair of player and trying to remove tar off of cement.
After 6 months of wasting my tome and energy I finally made my way to 2 hernia surgeons that have experience with mesh issues:
one some something fishy on the MRI all others ask was fine and he made a educated guess that my mesh had shifted
Tue second surgeon definitively saw on my cat scan (the same one others said was fine )that the mesh had folded and shifted
I ends up having my mesh removed by the second surgeon dr. Igor Belyanski. After removal he told me it was way worse then the scan has shown and that the makeshifts was completely balled up and rock hard.
i tell you this because I have come across tome and time again people staying in their network or state or city and dealing with local doctors or specialists.
You need to goto someone or reach out to someone who has experience with both mesh issues and mesh removal otherwise you will just be spinning you wheels in mud.
There are surgeons mentioned on this forum although few in number who have the expertise.
Belyanski, Towfigh, Billings and Kprata.
i has to revel from NY to MD for my consultation and most people have to do this to see the best.
id highly rx seeking a second and even a third opinion with some of these surgeons so you can get a fair and competent answers to your issues -
I would just like to add another insight.
it seems from your posts that you are someone who is active and works out a lot.
it is possible for some people for whatever the reasons and there can be quite a few that some people who work out may have different experiences with mesh implantation then sedentary people.
i was someone who worked out with weights before my surgery and after my mesh surgery and I can tell you after a workout is when I felt the worst and the mesh area would be extremely bothersome for a few days before it felt better. My mesh was found to be balled up and all over structures it shouldn’t be when it was eventually removed . I truly believe that the not only did the mesh fail but my activity levels might of made it to Become more and more defunct.
so a possible experiment for you to try is to lay of working out-whatever it is you do- for a period maybe a month and note how you feel. If you don’t experience the same kind of pain as you currently do then that can be a indicator.
It may mean you have to modify your exercise routine and experiment.
I over time found exercises that bothered me and others that didn’t as some exercises put more pressure on the surgical are and the mesh
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The current trend amongst surgeons seems to be after surgery you will be good as new and can go whatever your want-this may not be true for everyone. -
I find it very interesting and logical and maybe the surgeons can weigh in but you mentioned your repair, removal, neurectomies and subsequent repair were on the left side. The left side is where the colon is and obviously where a lot of the feces accumulates before going to the bathroom.
It seems obvious to me that left sided hernias and repairs can have more of a association with bowel issues and any other intestinal issues because of the anatomy.
It seems this should automatically clue in the medical professionals when someone has left sided inguinal hernias and repairs that these type of issues can be related. I know the surgeons may disagree with me in this one but when you have the mesh implanted laparoscopically there is even more potential for these type of Oreo lens should something g go wrong with the mesh
I’ve had both a right and left sided inguinal hernias and repairs and they were worlds apart in how I felt. The right hernia caused very few symptoms. And the reality the same.
However, my left hernia which went undiagnosed for a year and a half cussed all sorts of issues including constipation.
After left sided repair with laparoscopic mesh which ended up balling up I had all sorts of pain and issues including my bowels not working the way they should and a lot pressure in that area -
Absolutely. My point was simply that I wouldn’t advise people to trust say the chronic pain %’s of mesh that is quoted out there say 5% because based on my experience and many others their complaints get brushed off so there isn’t a way to get honest numbers especially without a registry. I personally believe the %’s off mesh pain and issues is much a higher then reported in the literature. That’s all I was trying to say.
Maybe I misinterpreted what you were trying to say.
I certainly have my own opinions on mesh and it’s use and over use but also understood there are many that do well with mesh and others where a pure tissue repair may not be the best course of action. -
Sicily63
As someone who has had there mesh removed and had the awful experience for 6 months of having the top NYC surgeons, doctors and medical facilities and scans say all was well with me only to learn at removal that my mesh was completely balled up and rock hard and on all sorts of structures it shouldn’t be on your statement if I understand it is very inaccurate that if transvaginal cases were factored out mesh issues would be say in the normal range of all surgeries
As someone who stays active in the mesh forums trying to help people who have had issues post hernia mesh procedures there is one common theme that prevails-they aren’t helped by the medical community, their surgeon etc. there complaints fall on deaf ears. They are told it is something else and passed on to other doctors in a endless merry go round. So there is no way to tell the true number of mesh related complaints bc they aren’t getting reported-they are being denied and passed off.
There is no registry! No way to tell the true numbers!
Again I was someone told everything was fine with my mesh, scans showed this, physicals showed this-but my life was ruined. No one believe me and my mesh was found to be completely defunct.
if I didn’t travel out of state-pay my own way-had a supportive family and finances unlike so many- I would of never known. I Woolf if Laid In bed suffering-believing want the medical community told me.
if no one thinks it’s the mesh causing the issues then the stats will reflect this -
It’s the perfect crime. Mesh can’t be seen (for the most part) once implanted and the medical professions (but a few ) will deny any symptoms are related or caused by the mesh. And no registry to track any complaints or failures.
the perfect crime and cover up. -
A pure tissue repair with a absorbable mesh is something I’ve been pondering and asking about on these forums. If “perfected” it seems for a certain population it could be a great solution.
For inguinal repairs it could start with the premise that a non mesh repair repair will be the first line of defense for small hernias and strong surrounding tissue. If upon surgical exploration it is determined that the hernia is to big or that surrounding tissue is also weak in addition to the hernia defect a natural repair with a onlay of absorbable mesh could be the protocol.
The absorbable mesh could also be a additional safeguard should the surgeon not bring an expert in non mesh repairs with the absorbable mesh being an extra layer of defense.
Bridging the two methods tissue repair and absorbable mesh seems to have as a idea promise
Ofcourse we know very little about absorbable meshes: do they really completely absorb 100% and what are some of the risks inherent to this kind of device. And ofcourse as good intentions mentioned we can’t trust the manufacturer to really have the patients best health interests in mind when developing this product . -
Rest up and take it slow. Let your body heal. Down the line when you are up to it swimming and water therapy are great ways to slowly and gently getting some exercise in.
since the mesh turned out to be folded you were 100% right in getting it removed and by a surgeon who has a good track record removing mesh and repairing the defect without mesh.
At this point don’t listen to any negativity.
Everyone’s situation is different right down to the surgeon, what the mesh was doing, type of sifter etc.
There are many that have been dramatically helped by having their mesh removed.
im one of them. My mesh was balled up inside of me and rock hard. Significantly better since removal. So is good intentions removal story.
The recovery process can be long and not linear so expect good days and days where you might feel jack to square one but small incremental steps can happen even way way down the line.
best wishes! -
Unfortunately most radiologists and surgeons don’t know how to read cat scans or MRI’s as they Pertain to mesh.
That being said it is very rare that mesh will show up as the root cause on one of these scans unless it has significantly migrated or balled up.
Usually only when the surgeon actually gets in there can it be seen what the mesh is actually doing -
Your in good hands. If you need lapro mesh removed he is tops of the top. He will safely remove your mesh. Hopefully the pain you are experiencing will cease after removal.
i am also glad that they are looking at ways to let out of staters see him. When I had my mesh removed by dr. B 2 years ago self pay or out of network patients were seen.
Best wishes -
Your contributions here and abroad are fewsrrky appreciated!
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What I’m happy the most about is that his pain clinic is a one stop shop with apparently a lot of experts with experience in groin pain especially the ultrasound which you really need someone experienced to perform.
He also removes mesh and is starting to get a good reputation. I have heard from 3 people on a Facebook mesh forum that had their mesh removed by him and are doing very well. One mom whose son had his mesh removed by him noted her son has his normal teenage life back.
not sure if Krpata does only open removals or he also does lapro removals too but it is good news that there is another surgeon out there for people to consider. -
Unfortunately there are only a handful of surgeons in the US or In the world for that matter that can competently remove hernia mesh.
If the VA doctors are denying you or saying that you will be worse off after mean removal it is code for they don’t have the skill/experience to remove your mesh. And believe me you can be made worse off after mesh removal by a surgeon who doesn’t have the skill set needed-which is probably 99% of all surgeons.
Maybe consider a go fund me forum in FB to raise money for your surgery and travel expenses. -
I believe as tome goes by the incident of mesh complications in hernia surgery will continue to grow as it is most definitely underreported:
There is no registry
-many surgeons either knowingly or unknowingly do not recognize patient symptoms are do to mesh.
99% of the people I correspond with who have ended up having mesh removed were told by their implanting surgeon and the medical field as a whole that the symptoms they were experiencing had nothing to do with the mesh.
Personally I was told by my implanting surgery all was well with my hernia mesh surgery even though I had a number of issues. Two more prominent NYC surgeons also said all was well-MRI’s and CT scans also came back “normal “
My mesh removal surgery showed the mesh had completely balled up, was rock hard and on all sorts of structures that it shouldn’t be.
How can we currently get a accurate pain/complication rate from hernia mesh surgery when the patient is up against such hurdles and incompetence/cover up??!!
Fortunately with the internet and community forums the truth about the concerns and dangers of mesh complication can spread.
i believe it is safe to say that mesh complication is not rare!
What is rare is the number of surgeons in the United States and world wide that offer a specialty in non mesh repairs to even the playing field. Sad. -
The over analysis is warranted in this important decision.
one thing that may help in your decision between mesh vs no mesh relative to your case is I believe I read somewhere (maybe one of Dr. Towfigh responses) is that if someone may need prostate surgery soon or down the line then it isn’t a good idea to have mesh implanted as it may interfere with the prostate surgery. Just something to check out.
Also I always believe it is important if possible to speak to other people who have had surgery with a specific surgeon. There are people on this forum who have had a very positive response with dr. Brown for non mean repairs. You can scour this forum for testimonials with dr. Brown and then message these people to ask questions and get feedback.
Best wishes -
For non mesh inguinal hernia repairs the surgeons most notes are:
robert Tomas-sedates repair
shouldice hospital toronto
dr. William Brown (CA)-knows how to do all types of methods including Bassini and tailors approach to patients particular circumstances once inside
Dr. kang (S. Korea) kang repair.
Dr. Grishken (Ohio)- own method (heard mixed reviews)
There are a few others but these seem to be the top 3 -
Just curious as to what you meant by not a recurrence but a new hernia? Is it a inguinal hernia?
When a inguinal hernia is repaired openly with mesh the mesh covers 2 out of the 3 possible inguinal hernias. It covers a direct hernia space and a indirect hernia. Does not matter if you have one or the other it covers both areas. The only area not covered by mesh implanted openly in the inguinal area is a femoral hernia which is extremely rare in general and even more rare in males.
So I would clarify with Jacobs what kind and where is hernia you have.
I would imagine it very rare to say have a indirect hernia have it repaired with mesh and then develop a direct hernia or vice versa.
if that did happen then it would most likely signify that the mesh shifted or moved and I’m not sure I’d want that faulty mesh to remain inside of me.secondly you said you are not having pain in the first hernia site but in the groin and leg. Hernias are in the groin so not sure exactly what you mean.
Also remember mesh can he quite larger at often least 5×5” and can cover and extend all over the groin. So the new groin pain could definitely be the mesh as it can reach far from the actual hernia site and also affect nerves of the groin (3 major ones) which can cause burning in the thigh and groin or stabbing pain
or unless as mentioned you have been diagnosed with a femoral hernia which can cause both groin and leg pain.
Can you share which type of “new” hernia you have?
also check what type of mean you have and do some research on it. For example, a lot of people have had issues with a plug and patch type of mesh which has caused groin and leg pain for many people and have led some surgeons to condemn it.
i realize you are asking about and focusing more on the Surgeon to repair your hernia which is understandable but I think it is important to find out exactly what is going on and become as knowledgeable as possible so you can ask as many detailed questions and not just solely rely on a surgeon telling you what will be done.
Definitely get your operative report of you haven t already as it will contain important pieces of info about your surgery and mesh used.There is a name of a hernia surgeon in NJ floating around in a lot of the mesh Facebook forums that is getting a lot of positive feedback from patients. If you would like I can try and get his name.
ill reiterate I think it is important to consult with at least 3 surgeons ask tons of questions take notes so you can make the best decision
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If removal may be a course of action down the line after seeing how the new repair goes-And you are comfortable with Jacobs then I tho k it makes a whole lot of sense to have your choice hernia removal surgeon be the one to also do the repair of the recurrence because he will be familiar with your case and can even pull up video from the lapro procedure if he needs to reference anything.
Also best to have a well known hernia specialist tackle the repair
That being said just a few things to marinate on:
1) I like Jacobs approach in the sense that if the repair goes well and your pain goes away then your issues can be attributed to the recurrence as your source of pain and not the mesh used in the first repair.
2) on the other hand there are some other things to consider if you haven’t already:
you already have had a mesh repair that has failed and either bc of this failure and recurrent her ia have pain or it’s pain from the mesh-so you will have to weigh if you want to possibly go through this experience again with the new mesh.
Remember mesh is the “gold standard” and is primarily justified for low recurrent rates-which unfortunately in your case did not hold up.Secondly, by having mesh inserted openly and lapro you in essence have what is termed a mesh sandwich-you will have mesh in front of the muscle and behind it. It is very hard-next to impossibly with low recovery rates should both meshes have to be removed because you would be damaging borne muscle and tissue from the front and back leaving the area very weak.
That being said I do know someone who overall had a lapro and open mesh removed successfully (not pain free but much better with the mesh out ) He has the open mesh removed first but the pain was still there and he wanted the lapro mesh out too. The surgeon credited some of the success of the open mesh removal with the fact that he had lapro mesh in there supporting/reinforcing the area. Then when he healed the lapro mesh was easier to remove.
just brought this up bc in your case it would be similar in that if you still have your pain issues after the lapro surgery and decide on removing the open mesh then at least you will have the lapro mesh in there which could help in the open removal.That being said this is a big decision. Ask Jacobs a lot of questions-including what type of mesh he will be using and what size. Lapro mesh is often even bigger than open mesh.
As someone who consulted with Jacobs for mesh removal (ultimately went with Igor Belyankski for a bunch of reasons) I can attest to his thoroughness and ability to read MRI’s and see things many other have missed. But I know he is expensive.
if you end up needing or deciding on mesh removal you will be in for another $10-13,000
which combined with your hernia surgery can heal the bank.
i personally found through my research that Igor Belyanski has been performing robotic lapro surgery much longer than Jacobs (Jacobs was just starting to use robotics when I saw him 2 years ago) I also could not find anyone who had mesh removal by Jacobs except one person. Igor Belyanski was also way less expensive than Jacobs and my out of network benefits ended up covering everything.
i think you have a big decision on your hands and I think it is always a good idea to get at least 3 opinions and consults-ask a lot of questions get a game plan together and go with the one that makes the most sense and you get the best gut feeling from.
best wishes -
It’s a good point Pinto-hopefully dr. Kang can clarify.
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I (not a doctor) agree with good intentions that mesh issues can have a effect on other areas especially since they can be quite large with different fixating devices to boot. That being said the specific area that you outlined could also be the beginnings of a indirect hernia or a occult/hidden inguinal hernia. My right indirect hernia was kind of a classic hernia a bulge where you’d expect to see it and everything that went along with it.
However my left indirect hernia was nothing status quo-there was no bulge, lots of burning especially when sitting and was higher up in the area you have outlined m. It wasn’t picked up on physical exam, MRI or Catscsn (not maybe it would of been if I had seen a hernia specialist who knows how to read the scans themselves.
it took almost a year and a half before a hernia specialists diagnosed me with a hernia .
Of course one problem solved led to another as mesh repair ruined my life for many years until it was finally removed.