[Jnomesh]

I had my mesh removed by Dr. Igor Belyankski-Although he removed open placed mesh his expertise is definitely in robotic/laparoscopic removal of mesh placed this way.
I would also add Dr. kprata tontour just-I am seeing a lot of good testimonials from patients who have had removal with him and most of them open removals.
The best thing you can do in my opinion and what I did was seek out as many people who share similarities to you (open placed mesh and pain symptoms) and have had removal with the above surgeons. Narrow it down to 3 surgeons. Then interview the 3 surgeons mad listen to what they have to say. Between the patient testimonials and the meetings with the surgeons I believe you will have a gut feeling of who to go with.

[Jnomesh]

Believe dr. Koch and Mushenik are associated with this site and they will source you out to one of them depending on where you live etc May be other surgeons involved too

[Jnomesh]

Alephy
They are doing the procedure at LSU. The article says they’ve done over 300 so far.
I am not sure if they are find them for only certain types of hernias (ie umbilical ) or all hernias. It seems it can be done for all even though the inguinal area may be a more complex repair . At the very least it seems that the skin “mesh” can be used as a reinforcer in addition to a pure tissue repair.
As far as I know this is only being done at this facility.
It would be interesting to see the stats (recurrence and pain %.
If you scan the literature you will find that specialty hospitals and surgeons that primarily do tissue repairs report a very low recurrence rate otherwise a much higher one is reported.
I believe surgeons these days report a much a higher rate because they aren’t trained on tissue repairs and don’t have the skill needed to do them well.

[Jnomesh]

I should add this is human skin and I believe from the patient. This isn’t freakin pig skin or intestines!!!

[Jnomesh]

Thanks!

[Jnomesh]

Yeah it’s obvious that there is a alternative out there that mimics the concept of what mesh is intended to do but without all the side affects.
I mean tissue graft or regeneration has to be a starting pong but it all comes down to cost and profit.
I’m sure there are alternatives out there but are probably to expensive to produce with low profit margins.

[Jnomesh]

This is the problem patients find themselves in: lack of choice lack of viable options.
Mesh rules the industry.
If a surgeon says he could do a non mesh repair but doesn’t feel comfortable or quotes a super high recurrence rate it means he or she doesn’t do them regularly it at all but may know how to do them from a text book standpoint and it’s time to say no thank you.
And although there is a chance of chronic pain with a non mesh repair I can tell you from first hand experience that pain caused by mesh is line nothing I ever experienced before. It was almost alien in nature and when you think about it it was alien-it’s a foreign material in your body. So I try and tell people it’s just not classic human body pain (which dot get me wrong sucks ) but it can be unimaginable pain.

[Jnomesh]

I think both comments have validity.
What I like about dr. Brown’s approach is that he looks at the tissue and what’s going on inside the patient and then decides on the best approach and he says he is skilled on all of them.
Not sure if he checks for a femoral hernia or not.
I’d imagine say one has a direct hernia but say the direct area tissue is weakened he may do a shouldice type repair to fix the indirect hernia and reinforce the direct space at the same time.
But I do like the bathroom comparison as it appears for many a simple Bassini or modified Bassini for a indirect hernia is appropriate.
Although it seems like the shouldice repair at the shouldice hospital gives you a comprehensive exploration of all 3 types of inguinal hernias as well as a very sturdy repair for a low recurrence rate.

[Jnomesh]

Totally right Alephy! They are probably the same ones that brush off their patients complaints when people come back complaining of pain, symptoms and complications.9

[Jnomesh]

Looks somewhat promising and I Haven’t had a chance to read yet but seems a little concerning that from what you posted the concern seems to be around recurrence?
Hopefully it takes into account pain, migration, Mashoma and other factors and not simply recurrence.

@good intentions
I’m gonna post a research paper that someone in another forum posted. It seems a dense read but very interesting and something you might want to dig in to.
Will post it under a separate topic/post but here it is:

https://etda.libraries.psu.edu/files/final_submissions/11854

[Jnomesh]

I to am under the impression that indirect are the more common type of inguinal hernia.

It’s interesting what dr. Kang reports.
He does a different type repair depending on whether it’s a direct or indirect hernia. I once asked him what If someone has both types on one side and he said then he would do two repairs (in one operation) for each one.
My understanding is that the shouldice and desarda repairs kind of reinforce both areas of the inguinal area no matter if it is a direct or indirect.
Desarda kind of acts like a mesh reinforcement but with our own tissue and the shouldice reinforced the area a kind of buttoned home layered approach.
If I remember correctly dr. Kang said that the problem with these surgeries (even though shouldice reports a super low recurrence rate and some have accused them of cherry picking patients) is that for indirect hernias they don’t address the closure of the internal ring in which he does in his surgery.
Hope that helps.

[Jnomesh]

No one knows what the real complication/pain rate is regarding mesh surgeries.
And we will never know because there is no mesh registry. With no registry we don’t know the true rate of complications and for example which meshes have more problems or success risk other. It’s the big elephant in the room.
Let’s not also forget that if you came in this forum a couple of years ago or search the web the complication/pain rate with mesh was quoted at about 5% now we are seeing the 10-15% rate thrown around as time goes in and with the advances of the web and social media and forums dedicated to this matter.
I’ve already scene Studies and some surgeons quote 15-30% and so on.
And let’s also not forget that the majority of people who go back to their surgeons or other professionals about issues post mesh surgery or told “it’s not the mesh” for a lot of people they either give up or go into being passed off to many different medical specialists to explore the pain that they say isn’t due to the mesh.
And finally let’s please not minimize “mesh pain”.
This is a piece of plastic that is out in the abdomen that can really do damage and for many isn’t classical pain.
So even if 70, 80 or 90% of people do well with mesh surgery if you aren’t one of the lucky ones (and there are close to 1 million hernia surgeries done yearly so we are talking about 100,000-300,000 people out their with issues-no small number-so if you aren’t one of the lucky ones you can he left with life altering pain in which for many the only option is to have the mesh removed and there are only a handful of surgeons that can do this type of surgery-most patients have to travel to see them and pay out of pocket with no guarantees of being better.
To give you a example, I went back to my surgeon and others for 5 years with issues only to be told no hernia recurrence can’t be the mesh.
After 5 years the pain got so bad it changed my life.
Again surgeons and radiology said all was well with the mesh.
Thankfully found a FB mesh forum and had to do my own research. Found a surgeon who saw on the same exact images that all other surgeons said was fine that the mesh had folded and shifted. During removal surgery it was so much worse: mesh balled up and rock hard, mesh in my bladder, mesh wrapped around my spermatic cord, mesh pressed up against my colon and mesh on my illiac vein and artery.
So yes many people seem to do well with mesh but many don’t and although we don’t know the exact figure it seems to be growing.
The take away is if you aren’t one who is doing fine (for now ) the complications can be horrible bc there is a plastic device inside you doing who knows what.

[Jnomesh]

The radiologist and surgeons all misread my scans twice.
The first time they said I didn’t have any hernias and for 13 months I was in pain and has swelling. Laparoscopic repair with mesh revealed I had 2 hernias indirect and direct. How could 2 hernias be missed?
After mesh Surgery severe flare ups and a squeezing like feeling and heaviness in abdomen. Implanting surgeon said no recurrence and MRI’s and cat scans over the next five years showed nothing g wrong with mesh.
Finally dr. Belyanski reviewer the same scans and saw mesh was bent and shifted much worse when he got inside-completely balled up.

There at the very least should be a place or a center dedicated just to post hernia pain where people can goto and know that the doctors and staff are trained and dedicated to this population.
Too many people are being brushed off with their complaints post mesh implantation. It’s just isn’t right. It’s sad, and negligent.
It seems there are surgeons that care: dr. Towfigh with her forum and practice although many cannot afford her.
Dr. Kprata seems to have set up a whole wing that is dedicated to hernia issues where you can get the scan, pain management, Pt all in the same place and have the dr’s reviews your case as a team.
But still way way not enough
If plastic is going to be continued to be implanted in people as the gold standard there needs to be a many places and skilled doctors for people to goto and in their own damn state. It’s really a sad affair the way it currently stands.

[Jnomesh]

I think this is a great idea.
Especially about the most of doctors that specialize in no mesh repairs (besides the 3 or 4 that routinely pop up and are widely known) and the best of the best surgeons for mesh removal and post mesh complications.
There are a few other FB mesh forums that also have comprehensive lists of surgeons who do mesh removal and non mesh repairs. For a while I was helping contribute to one of them as I cane across People who had successfull removals and non mesh repairs. The name KD the forum is Hernia mesh hurts too. It may be a good resource for you to cross reference and or possibly find new names of surgeons etc.

[Jnomesh]

Yes and the only way they found out that the mesh had migrated into her intestines is that the CT showed a hernia recurrence. If the CT scan didn’t show that then they would of never went in to operate and thus would of never found the mesh all screwed up and doing damage.
She would of just been another person with symptoms blamed on everything BUT the mesh.
I’m pretty convinced if they opened up everyone who had a mesh implantation they would find horrific things going on with the mesh. Maybe not causing symptoms or pain for everyone but non the less I’m pretty sure there would be a lot of horror stories.

[Jnomesh]

It’s just nuts bc Mesh can Cause so many issues and tie patient gets passed off and around to all the different specialists: GI, back, hip, PT while everyone says it’s not the mesh.
But then you hear and rad if cases like mine where once they get inside to operate they say wow what a mess regarding the mesh.
Very sad and infuriating

[Jnomesh]

There is dr. Jacobs in nyc. He is private but will put in the time and prudently examine yourself case. I would put him slightly behind the surgeons mentioned above
from the feedback I heard from other people you might want to skip Novitsky. He is a talented surgeon but he only seems to acknowledge that plug and patch meshes are bad. Otherwise he rarely seems to think other mesh can be the root cause and seems to instead go down the pathway of a muscle tear or something else.

[Jnomesh]

Hi. Sorry you see going through this nightmare and understand what you are going through pain wise and frustration wise.
before I had my inguinal mesh surgery I had immense groin pain with burning and heaviness over a 15 month time span I saw 3 hernia surgeons, had multiple physical check for a hernia and MRI’s and Cat scans that showed no hernias-However, 15 months later a surgeon finally said I had a hernia upon physical exam and get this when he went in to operate he found 2 hernias a direct and indirect. This explained why I felt to different sensations in my left groin with close proximity.

i will let the doctors weigh in on what are some steps you can take but I’m pretty sure before I’d get a triple neurectomy id first get nerve blocks one by one for the 3 nerves is the groin as the can be used diagnostic purposes as well as a predictor how well you would do with neurectomy (s).

Given your experience I can imagine it’s hard to figure out to trust.

you mentioned you flew to get your non mesh repair so I imagine that means you went to someone who specializes in non mesh repairs.
i noticed you did not choose to mention any of the surgeons names but I do think it may be helpful for other readers if you did-(but totally understand if you don’t want to)
it amazes me that in my case and in yours that our hernias went undiagnosed.
i has a vericocele surgery in the same side before I had the hernias and you had your first hernia repair and I wonder if scar damage from not he surgeries can interfere with and make it more difficult for hernias and recurrences to be seen.

hopefully some of the surgeons will weigh in on all these matters.
i do find it very disturbing that your non mesh repair failed and failed fast-that’s why personally I am interested who did the first repair and also who did the second repair and said you had no tissue there.
you would think a large recurrence would show up on a scan or be somewhat visible.

[Jnomesh]

Sorry two times I tried to reply only to have it not go thorough
I have a very similar situation and had my mesh removed. You can PM if you would like more information

[Jnomesh]

I wrote a very long response and it did not go through and forgot to save it
so here is a very condensed version and feel free to private message me.
I had my mesh removed and went through a very similar experience before that of being passers of to different doctors and surgeons all said it went the mesh all tests showed nothing “wrong with the mesh or repair”. Back doctor hip doctor GI doctor
etc.
had to go out of my hometown of NY to find dr. Belyankski In MD. He saw in the same scan that all the others said was fine that my mesh was folded and had shifted. The mesh was removed and was much worse when he actually went in-completely balled up and rock hard and on all sorts of structures it shouldn’t be on.

i agree with Good Intentions. Skip dr. Earl . Don’t settle for someone just bc he is in your state as hard as that may be. He may be a great surgeon and capable of removal but from what I read from others and seen from his responses you will probably go through the same hoops with him too unless he clearly sees proof of something wrong with the mesh or classic symptoms (ie infection that warrants removal )

bc your mesh was implanted laparoscopically you will want to seek out a surgeon who specializes in lapro removal: dr. Igor Belyanski, Dr. sherwin Towfigh, Dr. Billings. The mesh should be removed the same way it was implanted so I’d remove dr. Brown form the list bc he specializes in open removal.

seek two or 3 consults. Be prepared that even with these mentioned surgeons who specialize in mesh removal and issues-you may have to make the final decision whether to get your mesh removed. Very rarely is there “proof” that the mean is the cause but you know your body. The stuff i was feeling and experience was nothing like I had ever experienced-it was so unnatural and so debilitating. I don’t think any of these surgeons can empathize with what people are going through with mesh issues unless they feel it for themselves.
if your issues started after mesh was implanted that should he the biggest evidence.
wjek I was going through my experience a co worker whose husband had mesh issues told me flat out “ if you’ve gone to everyone and had every test done and they say everything is normal then it’s the mesh”
the sports hernia is a joke. That usually only happens with extreme athletes and even then they feel better when they lay off and rest from their sport. Yours is 24-7 pain even when resting. This is not a sports hernia.