Chronic Pain…kang repair…calling all kang patients

[Chuck]

Thanks to watchful yet again for posting the German study showing absurd levels of chronic pain using the Shouldice procedure…this correlates with my many discussions over the years on various forums…The Shouldice repair may work well…but your are going to have a very good chance of having some chronic discomfort. I spoke with so many folks that had shouldice repairs…even those that did not claim chronic pain…when questioned closely conceded that they were not always pain free. Oh its fine most of the time…unless i lift some luggage…unless my dog pulls hard on the leash….unless i lift my grandson….if i dont lift more than 35 pounds at the gym and on and on….then they would typically say…well things have changed–i am not the same. Well our friend Mike M…seems to have been returned to himself with a few twinges….pinto had two surgeries with dr kang and seems satisfied….what about all the rest of you kang patients? How are you faring? William Bryant–i know you are in touch with a few ex kang patients? I reached out to Stephen k for more info and will report back when he responds—i love Stephen…but i suspect he will just say Kang never sees chronic pain…this seems to be the reply from all surgeons…never any problems..that said…i think the best bet for a new hernia is go early and go kang….

[Chuck]

our friend watchful suggests that the Kang repair may end up being more painful than a shouldice repair because it doesnt do as much to balance the tension…it would be nice to know what Dr Kang does to ensure that this is not a problem

[Chuck]

Kang has performed close to 20000 surgeries…or at least his clinic has. He says he has never turned anyone away except one cancer patient i think —can he handle the really big hernias? Its sad that he is in Korea and claims to have issues with english because he truly appears to be the best surgeon in the world…if he could explain how he fixes large hernias without recurrance or pain that would be fantastic….;probably an impossible ask…and given that Dr Conze seems to be able to have more tools in the tool box…maybe he is the go to….

[pinto]

@Chuck, it seems you’re in deep torment about choice of surgeon. It is difficult I agree. I don’t agree with you punishing yourself about your previous mesh surgery. It must be true that thousands have the same operation but somehow escape into nirvana. I’m sure I would not end up well, for I never win lotteries and things like that. However in the case of my surgeon choice of Kang I lucked out. About this I don’t agree with Watchful though I applaud his great contributions here. Me, I’ve been in no pain 14 mos. out. You can go to Kang confidently. Painless according to my experiences. Recurrence chance greater? Who says? Their data is likely biased.

[Chuck]

Pinto….thanks soooo much for your great input here…was your hernia large? Yes its tough to go against watchful…he is clearly the forum genius with no incentive other than to share knowledge and help people….and if he has concerns about the kang repair…we are bound to listen…at the same time kang must have fixed a lot of large hernias…given the sheer volume of repairs he has done….Dr Twofigh calls his repair a marcy like repair…which she only uses on petite women and children….so its a litte troubling —maybe the good dr kang will weigh in…

[pinto]

No not large. If I recall correctly, for my first hernia two surgeons independently measured it from my CT scan as 14cm, both saying medium. Kang does not appear to measure but he also said it was medium in size.

We both agree about Watchful being a genius but ya know even Einstein couldn’t get good grades at school. I’m sure Watchful would ace hernia school and it would be good to sit next to him for the answers, but sometimes a curveball comes and then what? W’s voiced concern is data. Sure we all want that. But as I have pointed out elsewhere almost no independent data for any surgeon.

As far as Dr. T’s view about Marcy, Kang, posting here at HT, while acknowledging Dr. T’s immense status, does not agree with the Marcy characterization. As I recall he said he developed his approach organically not piggy-backing on any particular approach. Of course he was originally a mesh doc, so he didn’t begin with non-mesh at zero. He grasped the problem and figured out a way to solve it. Could he have consulted non-mesh approaches? He likely did. He may have found his was unique enough to call it the Kang Repair. It is also likely that KR, though different, has some corresponding features with Marcy.

Here’s a question for you, something that apparently Dr. T has ignored: Why can’t her Marcy approach also be used with slim or small men? Why only women? Ask Dr. T.

[Watchful]

Pinto,

Did your CT report a defect size? 14cm is the hernia sac size.

I believe at least part of the response to your question is that the female anatomy is different. Men have a spermatic cord going through the internal ring, and women don’t. Achieving a good Marcy-type repair of the internal ring on women is not equivalent to doing so on men.

[pinto]

Thanks Watchful. Although a good explanation and maybe quite correct, I must think that the approach to the spermatic cord is not the defining feature that separates hernia approaches from one another. All must deal with the spermatic cord. Moreover, how Dr. T applies Marcy may or may not be textbook Marcy. BTW was Marcy originally developed solely as an approach for children? I’ve always thought it was not age or gender-specific. If true, then the question remains open—-Why not men at least slim men?

[William Bryant]

Have you been mind reading, Pinto? As soon as I read the but about Dr Towfigh saying only suitable for skin women, I wondered why not slim men? I’m a sort of slim man. So Im hoping it’s ok.

* Not as slim as I used to be

[pinto]

@Watchful, medically naive, I knew nothing about imaging etc. My CT scan was not for the purpose of the hernia but something else. I received no report. By luck I could use it for my hernia apparently. I thought it was pretty cool that the later two hernia surgeons I visited looked at their computer monitor–and I believe–applied a measure to their screen. Anyway they both made a calculation coming up with the same measurement in response to my question, how big is my hernia? It was kind of a test of their ability. 😀 (The first doctor quite familiar with CT scans could not identify a hernia, saying he would need a CT for that purpose.)

@William Bryant, you’re lucky to be on the slim side as I found out and maybe you too that being obese is a disadvantage for surgery.

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