JamesDoncaster
Forum Replies Created
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I know a few doctors that think it’s great. But, this video isn’t so promoising.
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Peter Billings can do a Bassini repair I believe. But, my recommendation is to go to somebody that specializes in tissue repairs, which means you will have to travel (I live in WA and know of nobody here that does tissue repairs as their primary practice.
Dr. Wright put mesh in me and removed it later. He is a competent surgeon for mesh repairs and told me he could do a McVay repair. But, he also suggested to me that, if I wanted to tissue repair, it might be best to go to Shouldice.
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@bryan I live in the USA … on a street called “Doncaster”.
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You can get the catched version of Mr. Sea’s post here
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I have read a number of studies that claim chronic pain is roughly equal in mesh and non-mesh repairs. I believe Dr Towfigh has mentioned this. However, no matter what the medical data and analysis may say, have any of you run across somebody (either in person or on the internet) that had chronic pain after a first hernia repair done without mesh? I haven’t. And I have done EXTENSIVE looking. Now, how many of you have read of or met people with horror stories of what a mesh-based operation has done to them? I would wager all of us have. Indeed, many times when I mentioned to somebody that i had experienced chronic pain after a mesh repair, that person would respond “oh, I know so-and-so and they also had a lot of pain.”
If the statistics about chronic pain after hernia repairs indicate equal occurrence and severity of chronic pain for both mesh and non-mesh repair, then I would say that those statistics are not in line with reality.
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Thanks @markt for the concise review of the article.
I find it absolutely astounding that any surgeon would perform a mesh-based repair for a patient that is having his/her first hernia repair. Every surgeon knows (or should know), that a portion of their patients will have chronic pain after a mesh-repair. And, those patients will have to deal with either life-long pain, a complicated mesh-removal operation or both, and will likely suffer PTSD. What is the worst-case outcome of a tissue repair? A recurrence. Big deal.
I work in a field that has a rather advanced understanding of risk-management. Either the vast majority of surgeons are not adequately trained in risk-management, or they do not care about their patients.
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I had my mesh removed about 15 months ago. Today, I feel mostly normal and my activities are not limited in any way. The only annoyance I have is a bit of sensitivity to pressure near my pubic bone, and even that seems to be getting a bit better with time.
Bottom line: I am glad I had my mesh removed.
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I lift weights on a regular basis. When I had the mesh inside of me, I had horrible pain in the area of the mesh for days after each lifting session. I’ve had the mesh out for about a year now and no longer have much pain after exercise (though, I still have some, presumably due to the scar tissue that has been left behind by the mesh and the mesh removal procedure).
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I think another way to phrase your question would be: at what point does your body stop “fighting” the foreign body that has been placed inside of it and just “accept” it? My guess is the answer is: never. If your body recognizes something as foreign when it is first placed inside of you, what physiological change would, at some point, convince your body to accept it?
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My view on this is pretty simple.
1. I have read many Many MANY stories of people that have had a mesh operation and subsequently had life-altering, debilitating pain. This happens, even in cases in which the mesh-based repair was performed perfectly.
2. I have not read a single story in which a person had a tissue repair and subsequently had life-altering, debilitating pain.
Given the above, if the hernia is not too large, the 1st (and hopefully only) repair ought to be a tissue repair. If the tissue repair does not hold, one can always try a mesh-based repair at that point. Using mesh as the first option is, in my view, cavalier and irresponsible.
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Here’s a crazy thought.
Suppose we took all of the resources that are being dumped into developing, testing, and approving variations on the mesh theme and instead, used those resources to train doctors on how to perform tissue repairs.
I’m serious. Just think about that for one moment.
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I have had one laparoscopic repair and one robotic mesh removal. I still have a “deep pain” that comes and goes. I always assumed this was from scar tissue that formed when the mesh was put it and subsequently removed. But, I wonder now if it could also be from peeling off the peritoneum twice.
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I am in the camp that had a mesh repair and it has ruined my life. There is zero reason to take the chance of getting chronic pain when there tissue repairs that have much lower chronic pain rates. Get a tissue-based repair from a surgeon that specializes in this.
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I guess one thing I would like to know is if doctors are ever given course in “risk assessment” as part of their training? I hear surgeons talk about recurrence as a risk. If you get a recurrence, you are back where you started. So in that sense, it isn’t recurrence isn’t a risk. If, on the other hand, you end up with chronic mesh pain, that is indeed a risk, because you are much worse off than where you started.
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Mesh problems extremely rare? That is laughable. And, even if it were true, Boeing 737 max plane crashes are extremely rare too. That doesn’t mean we should allow the planes to fly. When the consequences of “rare” outcomes are so devastating, it is not unreasonable to ban the activity that produces those outcomes — especially when safer alternatives are available.
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@alephy In fact, this was my reasoning for getting a mesh repair in the first place. I assumed that, with so many hernia repairs performed with mesh, a small percentage of them were bound to post online and it was nothing to worry about.
But, after getting a mesh and finding out just how horrible of an experience it is, and after reading countless stories and hearing first-hand how others have suffered, it is abundantly clear that mesh poses a serious risk to many a significant portion of the people that get mesh-based repairs. And, even with fewer people getting tissue repairs and mesh-based repairs, you would think at least a few people would be posting on this site or elsewhere about how their tissue repair ended up giving them chronic pain. Yet, I see no such stories. I have seen some stories about recurrence, but no stories about chronic pain.
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I fully agree @ajm222. I would love for any surgeon or patient to point me to one person who had chronic pain after getting a Shouldice, Bassini or some other tissue repair. I’ve done extension searching and haven’t found a single such story. Presumably, if tissue repairs were as problematic as some surgeons would have us believe, it would be easy to find anecdotal evidence.
Meanwhile, there’s no shortage of stories just on this website of people that had terrible experiences with mesh.
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At the end of the day, surgeons that perform hernia repairs absolutely know how horribly bad patients who end up with mesh-pain can suffer. Some of them, like Dr. Brown, have made the responsible choice to not do hernia repairs with mesh. It isn’t unreasonable to expect others to do likewise or at least to tell their patients that, mesh is not a good first option.
I have yet to hear a single justifiable reason for sticking mesh in somebody as a first option if he/she has a small hernia.
Try pointing me to one person — anybody — that has suffered chronic pain from a tissue-based repair. Presumably if this were a problem, somebody would have posted about it online.
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All doctors should be familiar with this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath#%22First_do_no_harm%22Doing an operation on somebody that is reasonably likely to cause pain, when there are safe procedures available is totally and completely unethical. If a doctor lacks the skills to do a tissue repair, then he/she should recommend that the patient visit another doctor. Doctors don’t help patients by causing harm.
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The main complaint I have with the way hernias are commonly treated in the USA is the inability or unwillingness of most doctors to assess risk. I have read countless stories of people like myself who have suffered immensely after having a mesh-based hernia repair. I have not read a single story from anybody that had a tissue repair. Given the possible (very serious!) complications with mesh, there is no reason to use mesh as a first option. A logical conservative treatment of a small hernia would be to begin with a tissue repair. Any other course of action is cavalier and irresponsible.
Also, the commonly used line: “most patients tolerate the mesh just fine,” is NOT a proper justification for using mesh. Most people that flew in a 737 Max tolerated their flight just fine too. But, at least the FAA had the sense to step in when it became clear there was a serious problem with that plane. I see very little willingness from anybody in the US medical industry to step up and address the very serious problems that mesh causes.