Good intentions
Forum Replies Created
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To answer your direct question, I think that the odds are against you in thinking that small groin hernias would cause your symptoms. Nothing wrong with hoping but you are in a dangerous position now. There are many paths forward that could lead to more problems. Most of the surgeons that you talk to will be happy to schedule you for a mesh implantation as soon as they can fit you in.
Good luck and be careful. Don’t gamble.
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The hiatal hernia seems to fit the symptoms better doesn’t it? You might be hoping for too much. Has no doctor suggested surgery for the hiatal hernia? You might be on the “repeat customer” program for pharmaceuticals.
Be careful moving forward. If you see a hernia specialist about a groin hernia it’s easy to imagine that they will schedule you for surgery, repair the inguinal hernias and leave the hiatal hernia alone. You will be back to where you have been over the past eleven years. Maybe worse off if you get certain types of repair.
You might consider seeing a weight loss surgeon. They often have expertise in hernia repair and a broader knowledge of gastrointestinal issues. The surgeon who removed the mesh from me is a weight loss surgery specialist, who also repairs hernias.
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It definitely was not me asking to join. Feel confident in that if you decide to let them in.
Good luck with anything good that you’re trying to do.
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It’s not clear at all what the purpose of the private group is, there is nothing on the Facebook page except a name, Natural Health All Stars, and a logo.
“Bullet proofing yourself”, above, seems to be the sole goal. Why would that be more important than posting on a freely available public forum, for everyone’s benefit?
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Here is a place to purchase it with more details.
https://shop.lww.com/Operative-Techniques-in-Foregut-Surgery/p/9781975176617
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Here is a good video describing future goals for mesh products. It shows the weaknesses in current products.
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8 x 8 cm is about 3 x 3 inches. It might be that what you’re feeling is the edge of the bottom of the mesh, as far as the stabbing needles effect. Maybe not stabbing but the edges pulling away or being stressed. The mesh ends up stiffer than the surrounding tissue as the fibers become encapsulated by tissue, so the edges of the mesh become what would be called stress riser areas, in engineering terms. The soft tissue around it stretches but the mesh/tissue composite does not.
Anyway, ten weeks is not really strong enough for the tissue around the mesh to reach full strength. Study up on tissue healing and you might get some ideas about how to work your way back to your old routines. Surgeons are not really experts on things like the biology of tissue healing. They put the mesh in as it’s recommended then it’s up to the patient and others to handle the rest.
Here is a pretty good article about tissue healing. Its focus is more toward the surface, the skin, but the principles of collagen formation are the same I think.
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Repairing an asymptomatic hernia is a topic of debate in the hernia repair world. Because of what you are experiencing.
Ride it out and see where you end up. Your body will adapt, it’s really just a question of how and how much.
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You’re not really saying anything Pinto. Avoiding the questions I asked, and projecting them back at me.
I was planning to get a tissue repair, at either Shouldice or Dr. Brown’s place, but I believed a good friend of mine who was a surgeon, who believed what he was being told about mesh repairs by the Chair of Surgery at his clinic. Eventually I had the mesh removed, and my friend quit the clinic, a place he had been proud to be a part of, and erased any mention of it from his employment history. Not a word, just a big gap in time. He seems to be doing well at his new place of employment. But I have not talked to him since.
You and I are on the forum for very different reasons Pinto. You seem to be here for your own amusement.
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It is not my imagination. “Supporters” were shown for past meetings. Maybe they will appear in the Final Program. The meeting is still one month away.
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Nothing useful will come of belaboring the point, trying to “win” the argument. It’s a matter of opinion, and apparently, the use of language in a philosophical discussion, which is always the case in a discussion of philosophy. A person either believes that corporations can influence health care professionals for their own profit over the safety of the patients, or they don’t. And they can have different opinions on whether or not that is evil.
Pinto, feel free to start a new Topic defending the influence of the corporations in the field of hernia repair. Why did you decide not to use their mesh products? Why did you choose a tissue repair over a mesh repair? If you believe the marketing campaigns, mesh is “safe” and lowers your probability of recurrence dramatically. You chose a side and now you’re arguing against your own decision. Are you saying that the corporations are ignorant about their own products, and the surgeons that use them also. Can ignorance lead to evil results?
Explain your decision to ignore the mesh hernia repair device marketing, and your opinion will have much more weight. You can’t play both sides.
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You raise some good points pinto.
But when you consider the living hell that many people with chronic pain have experienced from mesh implants, and translate that living hell to a young child, an adolescent or teenager or even young adults, I don’t think that Satanic inferences are far off. Remember that Satan is often thought of as the cause for people to do bad things. The person is not inherently bad. They are being manipulated or tempted in to doing bad things.
Aside from the philosophical discussion, the comparison between Dr. Ponsky’s video and the Master’s presenter’s video is pretty stark. But, even Dr. Ponsky stops short of describing what the effects of early mesh implantation might be. People are really afraid to criticize mesh at these corporation-sponsored conferences.
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I had a thought to see how Dai Greene was doing and came across his Wikipedia page. Despite the horrible toll that a mesh implant had on his career and all of the publicity about it at the time, his Wikipedia page is clean of any mention of mesh or hernia. Very strange. Maybe there is a non-disparagement agreement in place.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dai_Greene
Here is the Guardian story which I don’t see linked above.
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Here is Dr. Ponsky’s views on mesh in children.
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Profits before health. Joe Camel. You are correct in that it is not a good direct comparison once you get beyond the motivation. My point was that both big industries really have little concern for the long-term damage that they might be causing. If they can sell product legally they will do it even if they know that they are harming people.
https://www.lung.org/research/sotc/by-the-numbers/10-bad-things-to-entice-kids
You can see in this video that even though they are dealing with children (I consider 12 years old a child) they are still only focused on recurrence. No discussion at all about the long-term effects on the child’s body development. In other fields, like joint injuries, it is well-known, for example, that the growth plate should not be disturbed or it will cause the bone growth to have problems. Always focused on the perfect one-time repair.
This video was accepted by SAGES as representative of “state-of-the-art”. It is the Masters Hernia section of their conference. They are promoting mesh repairs for children. I will post another video from Dr. Ponsky giving his views on mesh repair in children.
The more you explore the more you see mesh being promoted for everything possible. I can’t imagine being a teenager and experiencing what I experienced when I had the mesh implants as a full grown worldly adult. I am sure that I would have ended up dead, by one means or another.
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Here are a couple of the videos, and a link to BD’s web site.
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Very strange that the European Hernia Society would promote a link from their Facebook page directly to the guidelines page. Even though they are coming up on three months behind schedule for the updated Inguinal Hernia Guidelines they promised in 2022.
This is from one day ago.
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Pretty sure that Amelia Aria is somebody using a Chat Bot on the site. A word salad that is vaguely related to the topic of the thread. All of AA’s posts are like this. It’s not a real person.
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Your whole situation seems very normal. The Progrip mesh has an absorbable component so there will be more change over time. Many people feel like they can feel the mesh inside after surgery.
I hate to say it but there is nothing that is commonly done for issues like yours. Most imaging methods cannot “see” the mesh or the people looking at the images don’t know what they’re looking at so there is no way to tell if the mesh has folded or moved.
Your surgeon has already told you to wait at least six weeks and you’re only four weeks out. You don’t have pain, just numbness and some internal irritation. It is almost certain that at your next meeting the surgeon will tell you to wait longer and see how things resolve. The standard protocol today if patients complain of pain is to refer them to pain management. There is no surgical procedure for re-adjusting the mesh if you feel like it is folded or has moved.
Ultimately it will be up to you to decide whether or not to persist in trying to make things better. Pain can be managed with pharmaceuticals but numbness just requires time and waiting for the body to respond.
But, it is still very early. At four weeks you should be okay with walking and light exercise. I found that sometimes more activity was better than rest to make things feel better. If you are just resting and taking medication you might think about getting out and about more and seeing what happens. Keeping a log of activities and their effects can help also, as you try to get back to normal.
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Your path to surgery and where you’re at now is very common, including going in for a single hernia and getting both sides repaired instead. Three entry points is probably a typical laparoscopy, not robotic. All that you can do is wait and hope. You have a good chance of being fine. Numbness is bothersome but is much much better than pain. Take it easy, but stay active. The mesh is still being surrounded by new tissue that your body is creating.
Not to make you worried but if there was nerve damage during surgery there is nothing that a surgeon can do to fix it. Many of us that have had surgery have had odd nerve sensations and numbness. I have. But your body will continue to try to get back to where it was.
Good luck. Don’t worry too much about it. What’s done is done.
You really should get your surgery records if you want to understand more. All you have to do is call and ask. They are yours.