Jnomesh
Forum Replies Created
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You should feel very fortunate that you had a non mesh repair. There are many people on this forum and elsewhere that have had life altering negative impacts of mesh. It can do terrible damage in one’s body. Let your body heal up and don’t rush it and you will recover find. You are fortunate to have found a surgeon who specializes in a tissue repair.
Please share his name and city as others may be looking for a surgeon whom does non mesh repairs as these surgeons are very hard to find in the US -
Consider yourself very lucky to have a non mesh repair and done by a surgeon who specializes in doing many of these repairs. Many people do well with mesh repairs but many don’t and have chronic pain. Mesh can fold, migrate, crumble attaché to the ground nerves and other organs and 99% of the surgeons out there don’t know how to or won’t remove the mesh. Mesh is a piece of plastic that is the same material used to make tic tax boxes it is unatural. There are many people on this forum and out there who have nightmarish experience with mesh-pain you can’t imagine.
I would thank your surgeon. I had to have met mesh removed-the pain was unimaginable and very doctor and test told me nothing was wrong until I finally found someone who was able to tell me it had folded into a rock hard ball and attached to all sorts of organs and nerves.
Pkease take your time to heal and you will do fine. Don’t act like Superman and give it time at least 6 months. But talk more to your surgeon for answers on activity.
there are many people out there including me that wish I didn’t have put mesh inside of me.
it is almost impossible to find surgeons in the US who do pure tissue repairs-maybe you could be kind enough to share the surgeons name and city as other people can have a choice for a natural repair instead of mesh. -
For me I felt a tear like feeling a few days after my surgery and was confusing Bc I never had surgery before so I didn’t know if what I was feeling was part of the healing from surgery or something else. When I went back to thebsirgeon he said everything was healing well so I just gave it time. After a month I got a cat scan and it showed a large hernia. I had a burning feeling when sitting.
don’t know where you reside but there are a few surgeons in the states that do non mesh repairs.
there is dr. Robert Tomas in Florida who specializes in the Desarda repair. There is keven Peterson in Las Vegas who is anti mesh and specializes in pure tissue repair. There is dr. William brown in San Francisco who specializes in pure tissue repair. And there is a surgeon in Long Isaknd new you’re at Stoney brook hospital who specializes in the shouldice repair and trained at the shouldice hospital in Toronto and has done more than 650 of these types of operations and his name is Dr. samer sbayi. Best of luck! -
Was your mesh implanted openly? The only reason I ask is you want to make sure you have your mesh removed the same way it was out in. I know Dr. Tomas does open removals not laparoscopic removals. There is another gentleman on a forum I belong to who had hi snwsh removed by dr. Tomas and a Desarda repair. Tomas was able to get 75% of the mesh out and I think the gentleman is back to work and satisfied with the surgery.
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Also on one of your points Wilfred yes they tend to use a large mesh. They did with me and like you I am a thin guy. Part of the rational is that with a large mesh put in laparoscopically can cover all three types of growing hernias-femoral, indirect and direct which all occurred in different areas but in the same overall space. So yes it’s common for a large mesh to be used.
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From a patients perspective it sure sounds like symptoms of a hernia. I had a lot of discomfort when sitting. It seems the logical step would be to repair the hernia while its small especially if you do a non mesh, pure tissue repair Bc you can have better outcome when the hernia is small.
i think it is awesome that you visited the shouldice hospital they are the best when it comes to a non mesh repair.
after recovery from the hernia repair you could see if his pain is gone. If not it is something else. But at least he would of had his hernia repaired -
Two other ways of looking at the mesh VS non mesh dilemma.
1) it’s not only about whether something will go wrong if you get implanted with mesh but that if it does your really screwed. You have a permanent device intertwined in your body that isn’t meant to come out. You will face a medical community that will pass you off as you try to figure out what is causing you your pain. And eventually you may be faced with having to roll the dice on getting the mesh removed. So it’s much more than what’s the odds of something going wrong. To me it’s more the magnitude associated with something going wrong and not just the odds. I know people who have had mesh and are doing fine and have done fine for many years.to me that’s not the point.
2) i really believe the modern day surgeon has it all wrong when they quote statistics or reference pure tissue repairs-they always quote low recurrence as the primary benefit of going with mesh. But if you google the shouldice hospital in Toronto you will see that their method has a less than 1% recurrence rate which blows away the 3% quoted recurrence rates with mesh. Their chronic pain results are also less than 1%. This not only blows away mesh but destroys it in terms of chronic pain which can be as high as 15-30% with mesh.
so what’s the takeaway, what’s the read between the lines: pure tissue repair is superior to mesh repair in the hands of surgeons who specialize in pure tissue repairs. And there lies the rub-there are very few who do this specialty in the US. They are not trained anymore on how to do them and they certainly don’t practice it often.
I also think most surgeons who use mesh and will do a pure tissue repair white the higher recurrence rate Bc they aren’t confident enough that they can do a good job tissue repair.
Again the stats from the shouldice hospital closes the debate on mesh VS mom mesh. And anyone who quotes mesh as better really means mesh is better then getting a pure tissue repair from someone not qualified.
personally if I could do it all over again I’d probably travel to the shouldice hospital and have my repair done there. Why play with fire. I did and I got burned.
if you choose either method make sure whoever you pick is the best at doing either procedure. -
I had a variocele surgery where they also have to manipulate the spermatic cord and 3 days after surgery developed a inguinal hernia. My theory is that there was probably some weakeness there or maybe a asymptomatic small hernia that the area was made weaker due to the cuttin into the groin. So it’s certainly possible that the surgery caused oa hernia or exasperated a condition that was not noticeable or symptomatic
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First of all having mesh removal is a bogndeciokns with a lot of unknowns for you will feel afterwards it depends on a lot of moving parts. That being said I do believe if you have it done with one of the free experienced surgeons it can be removed safely.
sounds like you are having some nerve issues and those can die down with time or can be sometimes dealt with successfully with nerve blocks/pulses radio frequency ablation
if your pain is a around a 3 I’d probably say hold off in thinking about removal unless you just want it absolutely out and are worried maybe things can get worse.
once it is removed you’ll also have to deal with will there be a hernia is there and then how to repair it-which will probable have to be repaired open method if you want a tissue repair so it will be a double surgery wrapped into one.
if you’ve had the mesh in for a Couple of years there is a good chance the hernia defect maybe closed due to scar tissue.
in my opinion I had to get mine removed Bc I had debilitating symptoms that got slightly better but still were pretty bad and when I found out the mesh was folded I knew I had to get it out.
so how am I doing ? Mixed. I fall under what appears to be a very common response-I’m glad it is out but I’m not doing great. I know and can feel it is out-and I feel healthy again but I still have some issues-especially with digestion and sitting which can cause a pressure feeling and inflammation in the stomach and groin. As I am a little under 5 months out I’m hoping this gets better with time but I’m also worried maybe my hernias have recurred. Again my mesh was folded and I felt it grab and twist my muscles and really globally messed with my body.
i will tell you I felt very little to know pain in the actual groin post surgery which I was very surprised and happy about. I did have a lot of stomach swelling and had a harder time dealing g with that. I can walk around and move fine but for whatever reason sitting is still very uncomfortable.
lastly when you have large mesh inserted lapro it covers a large area in there. Mine had to be peeled off my bladddr and other structures. Hope this helps -
Dr. Belyanski said the 3D maxx is a heavier mesh and isn’t the best for thin people. Yes definitely get the tests-a cat scan may show better if maybe the tacs/screws got dislodged or are hitting a nerve (although it doesn’t sound like it) it could also just be inflammation. Unfortunately it can be such a myriad of things it’s dizzying. Praying with time it resolves itself but arm yourself with knowledge in the meantime. I went back to my original implanting surgeon 3 times over the course of a year Bc I would have these unbearable flare ups-and all 3 times all he did was check for a recurrence. So definitely seek out a specialist there are a few out there (Towfigh, Ramshaw and Belyanski )
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I really don’t want to worry you but wanted to chime in that I had the 3D maxx mesh implanted 6 years ago and had issues from day one. They weren’t debilitating but occasional flare ups were.
about 10 months ago I did experienced debilitating pain and after much exhausting journey found out that the mesh had folded. The only surgeon to see this on a cat scan was dr. Igor Belyanski in MD. I ended up having to have the mesh removed.
i have spoken with a good number of people on a mesh forum who also had the same 3d maxx mesh and are either in pain or had to have the mesh removed. For them to the mesh had folded over. Unfortunately this type of mesh Bc it is concave (this the 3D) it had a tendency to fold over. Not saying this is happening to you but just so you know that this particular mesh has a tendency to do that.
your local surgeon will most likely be of no help, they only check for recurrences and then it’s off ti pain management.
im sorry for the pain you are going through and I hope in time it will dicipate. I’m the meantime please layoff stressing the area-no lifting excecing etc. give the area time to heal and then go from there p -
Yes by all means do not go under the knife. I have been in touch with a bunch of guys who had mesh inserted for hernia repair when they didn’t have any symptoms but hernias appeared on a cat scan and they didn’t have any hernia symptoms m. They ended up having issues with the mesh had it removed and the surgeon said they didn’t have any hernias in the first place. One might of had a lipoma but no hernia.
get second and third opinions. Dr. Towfigh is a expert at reading cat scans and is someone you might want to get a second opinion from. And from my personal experience I rx dr. Igor Belyanski. He has expertise reading cat scans and can give you his opinion with no charge. Just send a copy of the cat scan on CD.
finally if you do have hernias and they are small they can be watched if asymptomatic and if you do have them and seecis in surgery please look into and research pure tissue repair insteqad of mesh. -
Going back to doctor/surgeon will most likely be fruitless. Most surgeons will tell you to give it a year and then see how you are feeling.
I’d do a number of things simultaneously
1) get your operative report to see what your if mesh was inserted, how the mesh was fixated and any other things that might be worthwhile i for
2) I’d layoff the working out for some time. Even though you have mesh as a reinforcer there are articles that mention even with mesh it can take up to a year to fully heal etc. I’d see how you feel after laying off exercising for a couple of weeks.
3) keep the name dr, Igor Belyanski in your back pocket. He is Annapolis Maryland so not to for away from you. He saw that my mesh had folded on a cat scan I had and I had my mesh removed by him. He does quite a few removals. He can best assess what is going on and if needed can safely remove the mesh. However, removing mesh isn’t a slam dunk that you will be symptom free afterwards. It a case by case scenario. -
Well said. Especially the part about the patient not at the very least being offered an alternative/a choice between mesh repair and pure tissue repair. The fact that mesh is the “gold standard” and very few surgeon are even adequately trained to do a pure tissue repair is very alarming.
im sure you’ve heard this name pop up before on some of your forums but there is a dr. Steve Garvey in Australia that removed mesh and specializes in a pure tissue repair. Best of luck on this unfortunate journey some of us are on. -
Yes that is how they are for laparoscopic surgery. The one above your belly button is where the camera/scope goes through. The other two incisions are where the instruments go through
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I totally agree. And for me it is even more important than ever with the introduction of mesh. Because if you don’t get someone who is going to explain everything realistically it’s really in my mind borderlines on malpractice when you take into consideration what a nightmare mesh can cause if things go wrong.
my implanting surgeon was touted as an expert who has done many repairs. I not only had an emergency hematoma post surgery but he had the audacity to tell me that don’t worry the hematoma would help secure the mesh. When I went back to him 3 times post repair with pain over a year all I got was “no recurrence” give it time. Give it time so we would be outside of statute of limitations for mal practice?
Anyways indeed the mesh had folded up into a hard ball and I lived with it and pain for 5 years until a true specialist could see the mesh was folded on a cat scan. I had it removed. The explantknf surgeon said it looked like the either the mesh used was to big for the space or not enough space was made available by the surgeon for that size mesh. My wife recently ran into two people who had mesh surgery with the same surgeon and are having major issues.
so do your research carefully and I’d say if you are going down the mesh path find a surgeon who is an expert at taking it out to do your removal-that is the true definition of a specialist in my opinion.
my favorite is I read all the time on these threads that mesh is superior to the pure tissue repair and they quote their data. Yet the shouldice hospital reports recurrence and chronic pain at less then 1% way way less then mesh use. So what gives?
so what the surgeons are basically saying is outside of the specialty centers such as the shouldice hospital mesh is superior to the pure tissue repair. Delve a little deeper and the translation is this: hardly anybody does the pure tissue repair for hernias, students aren’t rained in it, and the devotion is towards mesh repairs.
so what has been created is a viscous cycle.
the fact that patients aren’t offered or have access to an alternative to hernia repair by qualified surgeons who specialize in this repair in this country is outrageous. Sticking something in people that is meant to be permanent and not come out-so if something goes wrong the patient is screwed all because the system claims that these plastc inflammatory devices are better.
And there is also something very wrong when these do fail and cause pain no one except a few handful of surgeons can figure out or admit that it is the mesh. So the patient is left to suffer in every way possible while the surgeons and doctors say everything is A-ok-off to pain management.
then after numerous hours of self advocacy and research we do find a surgeon to remove the mesh we have to travel and spend thousands out of pocket to try and roll the dice and fix this.
sorry for the rant. -
If you are willing to travel to Maryland, I highly rx dr. Igor Belyanski. He is a hernia specialist, he reads catscans.
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Don’t hold me to it but I think he mentioned that hernia repair is $12,500
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Dr. Igor Belyanski in MD has expertise in removing hernia mesh . The way your mesh was out in is the way it should be removed ie open BS laparoscopically. Belyanski specializes in robotic assisted lapro removals but is also doing more
open removals of mesh placed openly too. He still prefers to replace the removed mesh with more mesh but definitely will not do so if you don’t want that.
my logic is to first see if there is anything wrong with the mesh itself: i.e. Is it folded or migrated. Dr. Belyanski is an expert at reading catscans and in many cases can see if the mesh is folded or migrated or if the mesh looks to he in the proper place. Contrary to many voices out there this can be done. The problem is most surgeons and radiologist don’t know what to look for or how to see mesh on the cat scan.
So id get a cat scan and send it to dr. Igor Belyanski even if you don’t intend to use homebfor removal this way you can here what he has to say as looks at your cat scan. You can send the scan to his office for review.
if he says all looks well my advice would be then to try everything else you can (nerve blocks, medicine, PT etc) before considering havekng the mesh removed-Unless it is at a point where you can’t function.
if there is something wrong with the mesh itself however, it should be removed.
hope this helps- -
Hi I saw dr. Jacobs to see if he could diagnose if my mesh was casing me my pain. He is a bright guy and has a lot of excellent reviews. I do believe he specializes in laparoscopic repair but mentioned he could do open repair too. He does advocate mesh but feel he might be willing to do a pure tissue repair-not sure how many he has done. Though. Double check I don’t think he takes insurance and the operation is pricey. Check your out of netweoe insurance benefits