[Jnomesh]

And also consider a consult with dr. Brown in CA.
many great testimonies on this site from people who have had non mesh repair with him. See Dog’s post

[Jnomesh]

Dr. Brown a non mesh hernia expert uses absorbable sutures in his hernia repairs.

[Jnomesh]

Get a second opinion by seeing a non mesh surgeon.

[Jnomesh]

Also mesh is known by the medical community to shrink in some cases as much as 50% pulling and rigging on tissue and muscle and structures and sutures/tacks/ staples which caused tension. The only technically on paper benefit of mesh is that it covers the other areas in the inguinal region where hernias can be caused. So I’m lapro mesh it covers direct indirect and femoral hernia. In open surgery it covers direct and indirect areas .
It after reading dr. Browns reply In which he repaired Dog’s indirect hernia without mesh and also in the same surgery reinforced the direct space as it was weak and possibly a hernia cools form down the line it seems in the hands of a talented pure tissue expert (in which there few) non mesh repairs can also do what mesh is touted to do in regards to strengthening the surrounding areas without the use of mesh

[Jnomesh]

I agree more info is needed. Did you have open removal? If so after removal was your hernia repaired by a pure tissue repair or mesh inserted?
were any nerves cut/ressected?
Did you have lapro removal?
that being said open removal form my personal experience and also speaking and hearing from others is a much more invasive surgery-it is often 3 surgeries wrapped into one :mesh remkvak, repair and neurectomies.
lastly a surgeon once explained to me that the beaming process form mesh removal is not a linear process like so many other types of surgery -you don’t necessarily get better day by day. It’s more like you may get better in multi month cycles and there can be days far into the healing process that take you right back to the first few days.
But best of you can provide more details

[Jnomesh]

Try to lessen anything that increases abdominal pressure-constipation (higher fiber diet), coughing (chronic etc), and squats etc.
Avoid lifting heavy objects especially those that require bending etc.
You should be more than fine until you get your appointment with dr. Brown.
Many have had great success with dr. Brown and the fact that he is in your backyard makes it a no brainer to wait for him to return and go with a non mesh repair in the hands of one of the few specialists that has mastered this type of surgery

[Jnomesh]

I understand your trepidation with the medication.
i was just offering some things that helped me to function although minimally as I was unable to work or function with my pain and symptoms .
As I mentioned I had a multitude of issues but yes regarding the burning pain there was none when standing and sometimes lying down. Walking and standing the burning pain was not present .
I would imagine there is a higher probability of mesh folding or crumpling with self fixating meshes not that it can’t happen with fixation too.
Ly mesh was not fixated with sutures tacs or staples either.

[Jnomesh]

I had a burning pain in outside groin crease and lateral front thigh and it was brought about by sitting. This happened about 5 years post laparoscopic implantation. I had other symptoms and issues too but the burning whole sitting was unbearably painful.
it turned out my mesh had folded. But I’ve read that the Lateral femoral cutaneous nerve I heard can also be damaged if a tac or staple used to fixate the mean punctures it.

When I did all of my research I rarely came across any literature about this nerve causing issues when sitting even though I was almost positive this LFCN WAS one of the issues casing me my burning excruciating pain.
interestingly about a year and a half after removal I found a article of a woman who had LFCN issues and the diagram and pictures of where her pain was was exactly as mine. Finally a article that showed the burning pain not only on the thigh but also in a little patch of the outside crease of the groin.
Of you went to PM me I can send you the link or see if I can pair it here.
Some possible helpful tidbits that helped me lessen the the pain symptoms whole you figure out what to do
1) you can get a LFCN nerve block-it is used for diagnostic purposes. It was difficult for me to feel how much it helped jc I was having other painful issues as well.
2) Gabapentin helped me a good among although the side effects for some can be bad. For me it made me kind of feel Like a zombie but it helped me manage the pain.
3) unzipping pants and even using my finger to lift the waistband helped when driving
4) a tens machine I put the electrodes on my lower back helped immensely and I used it a lot while I was driving which I had to do a lot for work.
5) unfortinately most of these suggestions are merely a bandaid and it definitely sounds like your mesh surgery has caused this pain. Seek a top notch hernia specialist even if it means traveling and paying out of pocket. There are a few good ones mentioned on these forms. I used dr. Igor Belyankski, there is Sherwom Towfigh, dr. Billings and dr. Jacobs. These surgeons specialize in laparoscopic surgery the same as yours.
of mesh has to come out or exploratory surgery has to performed them you want to tackle it the same way mesh was inserted. Stay away from the surgeons who only specialize in open repairs.
Get your operative report and find out your type of mesh-mine was the bard 3D maxx and some of had issues with it folding. Find out what was used to fixate your mesh. Review all the notes.
This may be hard to hear but you probably will want to stay away from your implanting surgeon and go straight to someone who has experience design with these issues and removal. The advice you might get form your implanting surgeon is to give it time or go off to pain management.
its amazing how a lot of implanting surgeons either don’t believe your pain, don’t believe the magnitude or don’t know what to do.
id explore pain management to help reduce pain and explore what it might be but if also simultaneously reach out to one of the top specialists

[Jnomesh]

Never heard that before. Maybe a misunderstanding.

[Jnomesh]

Cremaster muscle is cut. I believe i heard shouldice hospital say they do it bc they believe of you don’t it can lead to higher rate of recurrence

[Jnomesh]

Yes I did. Surgeon said if you get one hernia there is a 5o% chance of getting one on the other side

[Jnomesh]

My personal advice would to be travel to one of the few surgeons/ places and get it done right.
of you listen to the surgeons who specialize in non mesh repairs they will quote very low recurrence rates that are at least equivalent to mesh or even lower. This is because they of their skill level and confidence having done so many. It is my belief that when a surgeon who mostly to always uses mesh but is willing to do a mesh repair quote higher recurrence levels they are just covering themselves and are essentially in a round about way they aren’t confident in their ability to do this type of repair. I believe the higher rate they are telling you is illustrating their confidence level.
Also the a guys anatomy is different then a women’s so the fact this surgeon has only primarily done women is also a little bit of a red flag. Since you hernia is small the repair should be relatively easy with very good results.
But here is the thing just in case when the surgeon gets in there and there is something not expected then you want someone who can adapt the repair to your specific needs and this requires someone who has done many non mesh repairs.
I have heard it before where a surgeon will say they will do a non mesh repair only to change there mind once in there bc the hernia was to big and they will slap mesh in and tell the patient when they awake. This is another reason to go with someone experienced. For example, When I had my initial hernia surgery it was beloved I had only a indirect hernia but it actually turned out I had both a indirect and a indirect so the scans aren’t always 100% accurate so you want a non mesh surgeon to have the skill and redundancy to handle anything with confidence.
i know the thought of traveling can be worrisome but for someone like myself who ended up traveling out of state to have my mesh removed, trust me traveling and paying out of pocket is worth it to get something done right.
id also double check your out of network benefits if you have them and see if they will reimburse anything-speak to a supervisor.
if you have been reading a lot of posts on this forum you will know the number of surgeons/places to get a non mesh repair are very few: there is dr. William brown in CA, shouldice hospital, dr. Tomas I’m florida and dew other secondary ones.
Id probably lost those three surgeons in that order as there are testimonials on this forum of success with dr. Brown. What I like most about brown is that he tailors his repair based on what he finds once inside. He has great bedside manor and offers a personal touch that you just didn’t see in today’s society-follow up calls and hands out his cell phone number and actually picks up and answers while you call or calls you back shortly.
Shouldice and Desarda (dr. Tomas) are to specific types of repairs that also seem to offer very good results. Whoever you choose still do as much research as you can. For example, I have heard great things about the shouldice hospital but I have also come across one surgeons name there that people have had complaints about and not good results.
Best wishes

[Jnomesh]

Glad to hear this Good intentions. Interesting that we are basically at the same time frame with our mesh removals as I’m approaching my 20 month post removal and seem on a similar trajectory as you. Like you I felt at ease if I would unbutton my pants wham sitting(standing fine ) and noticed that recently I have been forgetting to that and only realizing it after I stand up and excited that it wasn’t causing any discomfort.
There are now days that I don’t feel anything and actually find myself not thinking about the ordeal that I went through and the two years that I feel we’re stolen from my life.
Besides the life altering pain that the mesh caused me the secondary pain was the betrayal of the medical community to help or offer no answers for a half a year except to tell me it wasn’t the mesh and it couldn’t be explanted.
Of course we now know there are special surgeons out there that can help but it is up to the patient to find them.
im not sure I’m exactly where you are at this point but I feel like I’m 95% with days interspersed where I feel 100%.
Eating a healthy diet will he my biggest challenge to keep the gut healthy.
I still have I’m the back of mind here and there what my plan would be if I re-herniate. As of now it would he dr. Brown bit I know his career may he in the tail end. Who knows maybe I’m the not so near future there will be a influx of some surgeons specializing in non mesh repairs although unlikely one can hope.
Your contributions to this site have been immeasurable and hope you stick around and continue to offer your knowledge and support to those who need it.
Wishing you a healthy journey going forward!!!!

[Jnomesh]

Hey meshpain. I’ve heard it mentioned that some people have had success getting past the from office of drZ Belyankski’s by fed exing their scans and operative reports to him and leaving contact info and email address. I’d consider doing this and also attaching the letter. It may double your odds.
Also that is the second type I’ve heard someone mention Belyanski say because of how the mesh was implanted he would have to fillet the person open. Not the kind of words you want to hear I’m sure and although Belyanski is a highly skilled surgeon in open and lapro removal his specialty appears to be robotic assisted lapro removal that seems to give him the edge over some other surgeons. This may matter less when it comes to umbilical mesh but will matter greatly when it comes to the inguinal mesh as the inguinal area is a far more complex and challenging area.
i haven’t heard Martindales name a lot in my research of mesh removal surgeons do please make sure you ask how many of these surgeries he has done and the success of them and I think it is imperative that you ask for some patients of his that had same procedure as yours to get some feedback as you probably won’t come across anyone online.

[Jnomesh]

Yeah maybe even longer.

[Jnomesh]

Hi meshpain, thanks for your post. As someone out of sate who had their mesh removed by dr. Belyanski before they instituted this new policy of not seeing out of state patients who do not have his insurance i truly empathize with you as I have been rx dr. Belyanksk to other people on some Facebook mesh forums I’m on only to learn of the same issues you are going through.
As you continue your search of other surgeons I wonder if it may be worth it to send your scans (agent copies of any cat scans and MRI’s-Belyankski specializes in reading cat scans ) and type up a heart felt letter and fed ex them to his office. Find out the name of his physician assistant and get their email address and send them a email that you are sending over your documents.
i have heard from a few people that they were able to bypass the office staff this way and have heard back from Belyanski or his PA. It is worth a shot and maybe a heart felt letter can do the trick. You were so close and had your foot al lost in the door before the policy change it is with a shot. One of his first patients had 3 pieces of mesh removed bilateral inguinal and one I’m umbilical just like you-maybe it will help maybe a exception can be made in your case-you never know.
i leave it up to the surgeons to weigh in on why same method in is the best way out. But for me it is very logical. Of mesh is inserted lapro it is placed usually behind the muscle so it’s easier to just peel it off from the backside the to enter from the front and work your way through the muscle to get to the mesh behind it.
From speaking to many people when mesh is implanted lapro and removed lapro there are usually no hernias present and often no nerves have to be cut. However, when mesh is implanted lapro is removed openly there is almost always need for a hernia repair and usually some sort of neurectomy takes place-so it can be way more invasive to do it this way and there can be 3 traumatic surgeries wrapped up into one .
One thing that seems present to the people that have had their lapro mesh removed lapro by dr. Belyanski is there is not a lot of pain in the surgical area post removal. I only took extra strength Tylenol for 4 days and no narcotics and others who I have spoken to expressed the same wonder. This isn’t the case with the people who have had lapro mesh removed openly. It’s just a way more invasive surgery. The outcomes just don’t seem as good.
As a previous responder mentioned I would stay away from Peterson as I know for a fact he makes a very large incision from breadth bone to Linux bone when removing lapro mesh openly.
My first surging who I inquired about mesh removal was Dr. brown and he was wonderful to speak to. If I wanted a no mesh hernia he’d be my guy.. or if I needed open placed meshremoved openly he’d be a top considerations Bit when he wanted to remove my lapro placed mesh openly I did not feel comfortable with that. His reasoning seemed good as he said he could see very structure as he worked his way down to the mesh. I got the feeling this was the way he felt the most comfortable doing. I sought another opinion.
Dr. Jacobs was next for me. I lived in NYC and that’s where is was located. He said the mesh should he removed the same way it was out in and this was repeated by Belyanski and Towfigh so felt reassured that my initial gut feeling about this was right. BTW Jacobs does not even take insurance so if he is someone you are considering he will take self pay patients. If you have out of network benefits it could pay for some of the costs 2 years ago I Believe his quote was about $10,000 for removal-this does not include anesthesiology and you’d have to check with mount Sainai if they take take your insurance .
dr Jacobs was great he listened and like a detective tried to osier together what was going on. His best educated guess was that it was the mesh and it should be removed. There were some things with my visit with Jacobs that led me to get one more opinion. When a guy on a FB reputed that a Igor Belyanksk removed his 3 pieces of mesh and got 100% removed with no nerves being cut I sent my info to his office for a third opinion. He got back to me and definitively said the mesh was folded and shifted and he saw this on my cat scan-the same cat scan 3 other surgeons and radiologists said looked perfects.
As I mentioned I had my mesh removed by dr. Belyanski and I have my life back.
my advice and take it for what it is worth is to avoid any Surgeons who want to remove your lapro mesh openly. If you can’t make it work with Belyanski I would focus on Towfigh, Billings and Jacobs. If you can get a consult with all three the better-then make the choice that feels right to you. It is a big decision. You only get one chance to get it right.

[Jnomesh]

Absolutely agree that inguinal hernias or any hernia for that matter can’t be foxed without surgery
difference between indirect and direct hernia is there location and defect. Indirect is associated with where the hole is for the testicles in males to come down and direct is a defect in the muscle where there is no structural hole to start off with.
indirect hernia goes directly into the inguinal canal and the direct hernia goes through the muscle and enters inguinal canal at a different point ( not at the opening where a indirect one happens.) oversimplifying it but that’s the jist of it as I understand it

[Jnomesh]

Thanks. Definitely a ordeal with mesh removal on top of the two hernia surgeries on each side.
i think it is the other way around indirect hernias are easier to treat-Ive heard the analogy made the a indirect hernia so analogous to a towel preventing a door from closing. Remove the towel and the door closes. This is over simplistic but a indirect hernia is bc of a defect from birth as the small hole that allows ones testicles to drop as a infant stays open to some degree.
direct hernia a hole is manufactured within the muscle where no hole was previously.
ive also heard from most mesh proponents that a direct hernia almost always needs mesh where as a indirect hernia can be done non mesh (of course in reality mesh is used for everything . I’m sure the few non mesh experts out there would say have successs treating both types of repairs without mean.
but you are right a hernia can never be cured without surgery. I think what the author is saying is that they can be managed with some exercises and a support system (truss)
notice he seems to equate the hernia being “fixed “ with it not popping out anymore. Whether a hernia protrudes or not doesn’t really have anything to do whether a hernia is present or not .
ot just means it’s not popping out or protruding enough to be seen. The most important fact is that the hole itself in which the hernia goes through cannot be fixed without surgery.

[Jnomesh]

It also may depend on whether the hernia is a direct hernia or a indirect hernia since a direct hernia is due to a actual defect in the muscle itself.
i first had a indirect hernia in my right side which was bothersome but no that bad.
A year later I had what turned out to be two hernias on my left side indirect and direct and both went undiagnosed for 18 months.
before the hernias were finally diagnosed I was sent to PT 2 separate times for a month each and they had me do all sorts of stir including crunches and other at work and it absolutely aggregated my left side.
I know there are probably many variable but I really feel that the direct hernia was a different animal. It really bothered me anytime I did any an work or stomach straining and really bothered me when sitting as well-it was a nightmare

[Jnomesh]

I had severe groin pain, inflammation and swelling but no visual lump. Over a year and a half of MRI’s, Cat scans, visit to a surgeon and no hernias showed on scans or physical examination . last surgeon thought maybe a sports hernia even though I was not active in any sports. Was sent to PT and PT said he was a 100% sure it wasn’t a sports hernia and he knew a surgeon who deals with groin issues and upon physical examination he diagnosed me with a hernia. Had surgery with him and get this it turns out I had two her ia on the same side: a direct and indirect hernia.
18 months of groin pain and finally diagnosed.
Unfortunately for me the mesh surgery went wrong and had to be removed 5 years later.
Goto a hernia specialist. Towfigh is a great start