Good intentions
Forum Replies Created
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Three months is still early. Things will keep changing, slowly. It’s not uncommon to feel stiffness or pulling sensations in the area of the mesh implant. It is well established that the mesh and the tissue around it shrink. Based on how scar tissue changes over time, your best option is probably to avoid overstressing the area, hoping that it will slowly relax over time.
Study how wounds heal and you might feel more comfortable about your problem and understand better how to handle it. Here is one source, linked below, but there are many more, out there on the internet. God luck.
https://www.woundsource.com/blog/four-stages-wound-healing
“Cross-linking of collagen reduces scar thickness and also makes the skin area of the wound stronger. Generally, remodeling begins about 21 days after an injury and can continue for a year or more. “
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If you remember to save/copy what you write before you hit “Post Reply” then you can just repaste it and try again. It often works. I think that the site has a bad spam filter, in two ways; it is random and arbitrary, and it destroys what’s written instead of allowing the user to fix it. It’s poor forum software.
Funny, but I did not take my own advice before posting this the first time and had to rewrite the whole thing.
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2nd try – Unapproved
quote andrew1982:Hi Everyone,i am a 37 year old male in good physical condition. I was suffering from a reflectively small right side inguinal hernia for approx 1 year that caused no pain but needed to be pushed back in regularly so I decided to have it repaired.
I had open surgery (non-mesh) 2 weeks ago, details of which are as follows:
-neurolysis of the illionguinal nerve
-neurolysis and neurectomy of the genital branch of the Genitofemoral nerve
-hernioplasty (minimal repair technique)
-pre-peritoneal lipoma resectedThe days immediately following surgery were relatively pain free but from around day 6 I have been suffering from hypersensitivity/burning sensation that is very painful. The areas affected are from around 1cm below the incision to the base of my penis, the top portion of scrotal skin on right, the crease of my thigh/groin, the inside of my thigh and the top of the thigh to the right of the incision. The pain has not subsided since it began and is not hugely helped with pain killers (paracetemol/ibuprofen/tramadol). I’m pretty sure it’s the area served by the illionguinal nerve.
I have spoken with with my surgeon who is adamant that the pain will pass in a few weeks. I also asked why the nerve had to be removed when I had no pre-operative pain and was told that the hernia sack compressed the nerve and the nerve was adherent to the sack so had to be removed to prevent chronic pain. i was also told that the Iloinguinal nerve was protected but had to be mobilised carefully to avoid entrapment.
I am very anxious that the pain will not subside. Any advice would be much appreciated.
Hello andrew1982. andrew1982 Here is your post #1. Post #18 is just a comment about your post being Unapproved, nothing useful there. I couldn’t find anything about imaging.
The doctors who reply here are offering free advice and time. Anything that you can do to get them the information that they ask for will help you. I don’t think that they have the time to go back and look through old posts. No offense, I’m just suggesting that if you can collect and summarize what you know that you’ll get better advice. I suggest that you re-write your whole story, very concisely and to the point.
You’ve had quite a bit of cutting done on your nerves. It has been noted in past comments by the doctors that the cut or damaged nerves can result in a neuroma. The fact that it seems close to your skin surface is probably significant.
There is probably a solution for you but you’ll probably have to go through the standard process for nerve pain, whatever that is. Good luck.
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quote andrew1982:Hi Everyone,
i am a 37 year old male in good physical condition. I was suffering from a reflectively small right side inguinal hernia for approx 1 year that caused no pain but needed to be pushed back in regularly so I decided to have it repaired.
I had open surgery (non-mesh) 2 weeks ago, details of which are as follows:
-neurolysis of the illionguinal nerve
-neurolysis and neurectomy of the genital branch of the Genitofemoral nerve
-hernioplasty (minimal repair technique)
-pre-peritoneal lipoma resectedThe days immediately following surgery were relatively pain free but from around day 6 I have been suffering from hypersensitivity/burning sensation that is very painful. The areas affected are from around 1cm below the incision to the base of my penis, the top portion of scrotal skin on right, the crease of my thigh/groin, the inside of my thigh and the top of the thigh to the right of the incision. The pain has not subsided since it began and is not hugely helped with pain killers (paracetemol/ibuprofen/tramadol). I’m pretty sure it’s the area served by the illionguinal nerve.
I have spoken with with my surgeon who is adamant that the pain will pass in a few weeks. I also asked why the nerve had to be removed when I had no pre-operative pain and was told that the hernia sack compressed the nerve and the nerve was adherent to the sack so had to be removed to prevent chronic pain. i was also told that the Iloinguinal nerve was protected but had to be mobilised carefully to avoid entrapment.
I am very anxious that the pain will not subside. Any advice would be much appreciated.
Hello andrew1982. andrew1982 Here is your post #1. Post #18 is just a comment about your post being Unapproved, nothing useful there. I couldn’t find anything about imaging.
The doctors who reply here are offering free advice and time. Anything that you can do to get them the information that they ask for will help you. I don’t think that they have the time to go back and look through old posts. No offense, I’m just suggesting that if you can collect and summarize what you know that you’ll get better advice. I suggest that you re-write your whole story, very concisely and to the point.
You’ve had quite a bit of cutting done on your nerves. It has been noted in past comments by the doctors that the cut or damaged nerves can result in a neuroma. The fact that it seems close to your skin surface is probably significant.
There is probably a solution for you but you’ll probably have to go through the standard process for nerve pain, whatever that is. Good luck.
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quote andrew1982:Hi Everyone,
i am a 37 year old male in good physical condition. I was suffering from a reflectively small right side inguinal hernia for approx 1 year that caused no pain but needed to be pushed back in regularly so I decided to have it repaired.
I had open surgery (non-mesh) 2 weeks ago, details of which are as follows:
-neurolysis of the illionguinal nerve
-neurolysis and neurectomy of the genital branch of the Genitofemoral nerve
-hernioplasty (minimal repair technique)
-pre-peritoneal lipoma resectedThe days immediately following surgery were relatively pain free but from around day 6 I have been suffering from hypersensitivity/burning sensation that is very painful. The areas affected are from around 1cm below the incision to the base of my penis, the top portion of scrotal skin on right, the crease of my thigh/groin, the inside of my thigh and the top of the thigh to the right of the incision. The pain has not subsided since it began and is not hugely helped with pain killers (paracetemol/ibuprofen/tramadol). I’m pretty sure it’s the area served by the illionguinal nerve.
I have spoken with with my surgeon who is adamant that the pain will pass in a few weeks. I also asked why the nerve had to be removed when I had no pre-operative pain and was told that the hernia sack compressed the nerve and the nerve was adherent to the sack so had to be removed to prevent chronic pain. i was also told that the Iloinguinal nerve was protected but had to be mobilised carefully to avoid entrapment.
I am very anxious that the pain will not subside. Any advice would be much appreciated.
Hello andrew1982. [USER=”3024″]andrew1982[/USER] Here is your post #1. Post #18 is just a comment about your post being Unapproved, nothing useful there. I couldn’t find anything about imaging.
The doctors who reply here are offering free advice and time. Anything that you can do to get them the information that they ask for will help you. I don’t think that they have the time to go back and look through old posts. No offense, I’m just suggesting that if you can collect and summarize what you know that you’ll get better advice. I suggest that you re-write your whole story, very concisely and to the point.
You’ve had quite a bit of cutting done on your nerves. It has been noted in past comments by the doctors that the cut or damaged nerves can result in a neuroma. The fact that it seems close to your skin surface is probably significant.
There is probably a solution for you but you’ll probably have to go through the standard process for nerve pain, whatever that is. Good luck.
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Davinci, or robotic, is just a new way to do old things. The mesh and what they intend to do with it is the key thing to focus on. You’ve already had one failed “mesh” procedure. “Mesh” means so many different things that the word alone is almost meaningless.
The fact that you have two different opinions on how to fix it means that your problem is probably not a simple one. Doing more research is a good idea. Get more details from the surgeons that you’ve talked to, about the materials they plan to use and placement, and how they plan to remove the bad mesh. Ask about neurectomies and other things that they might plan to do while they are working. Make sure that they have a history of successful operations, verifiable, and that you are not part of their early learning curve. Robotic laparoscopy is still a new technology, spreading rapidly.
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Here is a topic on the site, linked below, from someone who had Progrip implanted then ~9 months later started having discomfort. But he is still fully functional and very active. I put a link in the Topic to a different forum that has accounts from many people who’ve had a wide variety of experiences. There is not way to predict who will have problems and who will not. If I were in your situation I would just go out and do what you expect to have to do and see what happens. It’s only been 6 months for you though and the Progrip has 40% absorbable material that takes months, apparently, to fully absorb. Long term results from Progrip are undocumented so you’re on your own as far as discovering how it will work out. Nobody can tell you with any verifiable data what will happen. It’s just the way things are in the hernia repair field today.
Good luck.
https://www.herniatalk.com/14836-recurrent-inguinal-hernia
Here is the other link – https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=133353003&page=1
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I wrote a bunch but the site wont let it through. Read this Topic for more information –
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Unapproved again so I’ll split it up in to pieces.
Here is a topic on the site, linked below, from someone who had Progrip implanted then ~9 months later started having discomfort. But he is still fully functional and very active. I put a link in the Topic to a different forum that has accounts from many people who’ve had a wide variety of experiences. There is not way to predict who will have problems and who will not. If I were in your situation I would just go out and do what you expect to have to do and see what happens. It’s only been 6 months for you though and the Progrip has 40% absorbable material that takes months, apparently, to fully absorb. Long term results from Progrip are undocumented so you’re on your own as far as discovering how it will work out. Nobody can tell you with any verifiable data what will happen. It’s just the way things are in the hernia repair field today.
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I got Unapproved so I’ll try to get it through again.
Here is a topic on the site, linked below, from someone who had Progrip implanted then ~9 months later started having discomfort. But he is still fully functional and very active. I put a link in the Topic to a different forum that has accounts from many people who’ve had a wide variety of experiences. There is not way to predict who will have problems and who will not. If I were in your situation I would just go out and do what you expect to have to do and see what happens. It’s only been 6 months for you though and the Progrip has 40% absorbable material that takes months, apparently, to fully absorb. Long term results from Progrip are undocumented so you’re on your own as far as discovering how it will work out. Nobody can tell you with any verifiable data what will happen. It’s just the way things are in the hernia repair field today.
Good luck.
https://www.herniatalk.com/14836-recurrent-inguinal-hernia
Here is the other link – https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=133353003&page=1
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Here is a topic on the site, linked below, from someone who had Progrip implanted then ~9 months later started having discomfort. But he is still fully functional and very active. I put a link in the Topic to a different forum that has accounts from many people who’ve had a wide variety of experiences. There is not way to predict who will have problems and who will not. If I were in your situation I would just go out and do what you expect to have to do and see what happens. It’s only been 6 months for you though and the Progrip has 40% absorbable material that takes months, apparently, to fully absorb. Long term results from Progrip are undocumented so you’re on your own as far as discovering how it will work out. Nobody can tell you with any verifiable data what will happen. It’s just the way things are in the hernia repair field today.
Good luck.
https://www.herniatalk.com/14836-recurrent-inguinal-hernia
Here is the other link – https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=133353003&page=1
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The thread is very long, 55 pages, but has a lot of good information in it. ShoulderBrah had a good experience. I didn’t. You’ll see that people who had a good experience will recommend that everyone not wait, just do it, while those who had a bad experience will say avoid mesh at all costs.
It’s worthwhile to browse through the posts. There are quite a few Progrip stories in there, and some people are still commenting years after their repairs.
One thing that I’ve said in the past is that nobody can “power through” or force their way to a better life by trying harder when they have a mesh problem. More physical exertion, whether measured in effort or quantity, will not help. The prime directive of many body builders, athletes, working people, or just generally tough people, to “tough it out”, just does not work at all, with mesh problems.
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Thank you. Here’s another thread on a different site, that might be useful. I got blocked on my first attempt so this might end up being a double post.
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=133353003&page=1
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Thank you. Here is another good site for information, more relevant, maybe, for you. Good luck.
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=133353003&page=1
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quote pmv:If you don’t mind. What was your hernia repair experience? Good? Bad? Surgeon? Mesh or no mesh? And how are you doing now?
pmv
It was very bad. The worst experience of my life, aside from the death of family members. I’ve written quite a bit about it. I post on this site to let people know what’s going on and how easy it is to get drawn in to a bad situation.
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Here is some verbiage from the single reference that Medtronic references in their marketing literature, regarding “satisfaction” with the use of Progrip mesh by the patient..
“The grips are biodegradable, and when the tissue grows into the mesh, the grips break down, leading to a reduction in the overall tension and chronic strain of the foreign body.”
“Most patients had a sedentary job or lifestyle or were retired or unemployed, and they performed little or no exertion on a daily basis. Hours of physical activity outside of work varied, with the most common activities being walking, golf, and other exercise.”
“Overall, the vast majority of patients were satisfied with the surgery, and all patients would recommend the procedure to family and friends.”
“However, longer-term randomized data are required to better assess the benefits of this approach compared with the other techniques available.”
But they never said how the patients were interviewed or what questions they were asked. It’s fascinating to dig in to the references and see how “light” they are. Not much to them.
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I can’t say much about what you might be experiencing or what to do about it. The mesh is usually not discernible by imaging for most “image readers”. Many people have gone through tedious MRI’s and examinations and been told that the mesh was perfect and there was nothing to be done only to find when they had removal that the mesh had moved and/or folded. It is not easily seen by imaging.
The reality though, in the end, is that it doesn’t matter where the mesh ended up. If you don’t have another hernia there is only pain management or mesh removal. Or just living with it. Discomfort from mesh repair is not uncommon. Read ajm222’s posts and you’ll see somebody who is kind of stuck in the middle, like you might be. Not bad enough to take action, but bad enough to be worried.
Wish I could give some advice for direct action that you could take. But the fact that you are fully functional and not in pain means that you are a “success” by mesh industry standards. Good luck.
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The term “tension-free” was created when Lichtenstein started using mesh to repair hernias, as I understand things. The definition was very narrow, focused on the sutures used for a non-mesh repair. I’ve attached a link that gives a good general definition of “tension”, below.
https://www.evergreenhealth.com/hernia-repair-types
The narrow focus of the term is about the sutures and the way that they pull on the tissue. But, the reality of a mesh repair is that a new kind of tension is produced. A broad tension from the scarring in of the mesh, which causes the mesh to pull tightly together as the new collagen shrinks. When I use the word “tension” I am using the broader, literal, definition of tension, not the term used to promote mesh repairs.
Another term that is used that sounds good but is actually not correct, in my opinion, for today’s hernia repair is “minimally invasive”. Again, if you use the word literally and look at what happens during a laparoscopic repair you can see that laparoscopic mesh implantation is not minimally invasive. Actually, literally, compared to a suture repair, I think that it could be called “maximally invasive:”. I don’t think that you will find a surgeon who can give a rational reason for calling laparoscopic mesh implantation “minimally invasive”. It’s just not.
I think that the term has been carried over from the original uses of laparoscopy for things like appendectomy or gall bladder removal. In those cases, where the surgeon has to create a large incision to get to the organ, laparoscopy probably actually is “minimally” invasive. A small incision allows the surgeon to remove the offending organ with minimal disruption of surrounding tissue. For mesh implantation a very large area needs to be dissected, splitting the peritoneum from the muscle wall, to create a space for the mesh. A suture-based hernia repair would only “invade” or disrupt the area local to the hernia. I’m not saying that one is better than the other just the use of the term is disingenuous. It’s not true.
If you browse through the device makers’ pages and product literature you’ll see that much of what you, and your surgeon, read is market and sales literature. It’s for selling the product.
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Bilateral laparoscopic mesh implantation, even robotic assisted, usually involves placing very large pieces of mesh, much larger than the defect they are meant to fix. Get your surgery notes and they should have the dimensions of the pieces that your surgeon started with. Do the math and compare to your abdomen and you might be surprised at how much area is covered, assuming that the mesh was laid flat around the abdomen. It won’t you make me feel physically better but you might feel more secure understanding where the tension comes from.
Also, Progrip uses absorbable material in its construction. It takes months for the material to dissolve and be absorbed. As it does the body will attach more firmly to the remaining synthetic fibers. That might be why things are still changing, many months after surgery.
Good luck. You are probably physically fine so your doctors will have trouble finding a reason to take any action.
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[USER=”3109″]Gymnastmom2011[/USER] notifying