Good intentions
Forum Replies Created
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I don’t want to dissuade you from talking to your surgeon. They would know best. If the history with their method says 3 days is normal then you’re abnormal, by that standard. Worth a phone call for sure. [USER=”2329″]Jeremy B[/USER]
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My theory on why thin people might have problems with chronic pain from mesh is that thin people are generally active people. In other words it’s not the thinness, it’s the activity level. It’s why professional athletes avoid all forms of mesh. There might be forms of mesh that work for active people. But they are undefined.
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Here’s another on surgical wounds. https://advancedtissue.com/2013/12/3-ways-know-difference-healing-infected-surgical-wounds/
I still have red spots over the entry points from my laparoscopic mesh removal.
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BMI is known to be a very poor indicator of body fat, although many assume that’s what it shows. It’s just the ratio of weight to height. More muscle also increases BMI. The industry likes to use it because it captures most obesity, but it’s a sloppy measure, of anything. It’s an example of the over-simplification of complex situations. Like labeling all of the numerous forms of mesh together as “mesh”. Both are classic signs of bureaucracy, dumbing things down to fit the forms.
https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/educational/lose_wt/BMI/bmicalc.htm
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quote Dave Graham:Is anybody aware of detailed publications on LONG-TERM recovery after an ‘Open’ I. H. procedure?
You’ve probably described in this one of your other posts but are you talking about open mesh implantation or open suture repair?
I posted a link to another forum in my “Good Stories” topic. There might be more information over there. It’s post #30. Good luck.
https://www.herniatalk.com/6883-successful-good-mesh-stories/page2
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No offense intended, but one week is not really very much time. Even a cut finger takes longer to heal. I found a pretty good summary of the healing process out on the internet. https://advancedtissue.com/2014/09/signs-wound-healing-stages/
I kept a log of my recovery from laparoscopic surgery and at one week I still had some general swelling, and at 12 days I still had a localized lump over the spot of the direct hernia. It was 16 days before I could button up my pants to the top button. Your absorbable sutures should be the type that take quite a while to degrade. Probably months. Even the fast absorbing types take a couple of weeks, I think. I had a piece of one poking out of my navel for a while.
Just a few things that might lessen your stress. I’ve broken bones, and fingers, and they generally take four weeks to “heal”, at least to the point where they are functional again. You’re still in the early stages. You might take more rest between your walks to see if swelling diminishes. Good luck, and stay in touch. You have one of the newer repair methods.
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Shouldice seems to avoid these horror stories. Another good reason for a registry of hernia repairs. Not just mesh. Without the numbers there’s no way to tell what is best for the patient. It’s all anecdotes and marketing.
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It is the official guidance of the British Hernia Society as of November 14, 2018. The momentum behind the use of “mesh” is huge. People are putting on blinders and hiding from the truth, I think.
https://twitter.com/BritishHernia/status/1062723661801705473
We have produced a Mesh safety leaflet for patients - https://t.co/a70Q7Go29i
— British Hernia Society (@BritishHernia) November 14, 2018
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Thanks for posting this paco. It was probably a good idea to get it out early. As NFG12 said, it can take a long time to recover after mesh removal. The surrounding tissue has spent all of that time accommodating the mesh. Don’t expect rapid results but do have hope for constant improvement. Good luck.
It’s good to see that the professional associations are finally taking some responsibility and performing the functions that they were originally formed to do. To monitor and advise. Finally realizing that the medical device makers are not working for the patients’ welfare, and cannot be trusted to advise about their own products.
Here is a fairly recent tweet from Dr. Towfigh about the plug and patch.
https://twitter.com/Herniadoc/status/1021561699290116097
What do you see?
This is a medium size Perfix #plug #mesh that has balled up, aka #meshoma . It was causing chronic groin & nerve #pain due to erosion into the spermatic cord, so I excised it. He is now #pain free!🙏🏻#meshcomplication #hernia #chronicpain #itsnotjustahernia pic.twitter.com/EgnLh0ULXR
— Dr. Shirin Towfigh (@Herniadoc) July 24, 2018
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Here are a couple more informative links. We should spread this recent focus around as far as we can, and keep it alive as long as we can.
https://twitter.com/guardian_sport/status/1066739706312962048
Hernia mesh implants cost Dai Greene five years of his career https://t.co/hKxatVL2BL
— Guardian sport (@guardian_sport) November 25, 2018
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Not a problem at all. Yours is from a different source and has more information. It’s heartening to see some high-powered light focused on the problem. I just hope that influential people will see the opportunity to get some change started. Otherwise, like many disturbing issues, it will fade in to the background again.
I just realized that I could watch the video on your link. Many BBC.com links are not viewable if you’re not in their region.
I encourage everybody to watch it. It’s only one minute long. I just wish that he would have told us where British Athletics is sending people now. Let the market forces kill the bad mesh.
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Deleted. Maybe too sensitive. It’s a tough subject.
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Okay, sorry I took the negative approach. I know that the tissue around the mesh thickens and becomes stiffer, in all cases. So the normal swelling and healing response from your injury might be complicated by the inflexibility of the mesh area, pulling on areas it normally wouldn’t. Hopefully it will relax back to the state in which it was working for you. Good luck.
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quote katiebarns:[USER=”935″]drtowfigh[/USER] My symptoms are achy and drawing pain in the same area as my inguinal hernia repair (pubic and pubic bone and rectus abdominis area kinda).
Hi Katie. I know that you’re looking for Dr. Towfigh’s advice but a couple of things that might be considered are that the mesh is often attached to the pubic bone, and the rectus abdominis. That’s what my surgeon reported and he used the main stream method. And as it shrinks it will pull on those areas. You mentioned a “drawing” pain. I don’t know/remember the details of your procedure.
Also, while much focus is placed the main branches of the nerves, I think because they are visible and can be manipulated, or cut, those branches extend out to smaller and smaller nerves. So it’s possible that localized pain can be due to local nerves. Focusing on the main branch is a way to suggest that the patient is having some sort of referred pain, not correlated to local damage. Pain and the “quality” of the mesh repair are often not connected. The mesh can look fine, placed where it’s instructed to be placed, and still cause pain. It’s not the technique, it’s the material and its interaction with the body tissues.
Sorry, I know it doesn’t help you find a solution but just knowing the cause can sometimes reduce some of the mental stress. Good luck.
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And another. I got green-screened,it might be a double.
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I had that problem. It has gone away since having the mesh removed, everything is back close to normal. I think that the inflammatory response affects surrounding tissues, including nerves involved in other bodily functions. In my case, the affected blood flow was not a general problem, fixable with a pill, it only affected the corpus cavernosum. In other words, it wasn’t an excitation problem, it was a physical, call it mechanical, problem.
The doctors I talked to did not comprehend what I was describing or how it could be, even two urologists. But the evidence before and after, before mesh and after mesh, is very clear to me. We’re all part of a big uncontrolled and unmonitored experiment.
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My view, emphasized by my experience after mesh removal, is that chronic pain is signaling chronic damage. I was and still am physically damaged from having the mesh inside me. Many surgeons, apparently, know and accept this damage and have mentally justified it as normal and “how mesh works”. The foreign body inflammation is what causes the tissue “ingrowth” and “incorporation”. I put these terms in quotes because I think that ingrowth is actually individual fiber encapsulation and incorporation means, essentially, becoming one with the body. There is no ingrowth and there is no incorporation. But the terms sound comforting and healthy. Much of what is happening today is because there is too much hope and not enough objective analysis.
I think that the reality of the situation is that the body is constantly trying to encapsulate and isolate the individual polymer fibers, causing an inflammatory response wherever there is mesh. Since many surgeons are on the bandwagon of the more mesh the better, the inflammation problems are increasing in kind, and that’s where much of today’s problem comes from.
In short, we need parallel efforts on understanding and controlling the damage. Pain management’s purpose is to fix the mistake, the inherent flaws of a bad product. It should not really be considered as part of the repair. There is not supposed to be pain.
Sorry, I know that’s not why you posted. I use the forum to collect and amplify my thoughts, and your post coalesced a few. I have not been able to rationally justify what is happening in the hernia repair field. It has all of the hallmarks of a project that started out with promise for true health care but grew uncontrollably because the financial aspects overshadowed the reality of what was happening.
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Hello Vegas. One week is not really enough time for the entry incisions to even heal fully, I think. Open surgery is generally known to be more painful in the early days than laparoscopic. More invasive, bigger entry incisions, work done right inside the inguinal canal. I can’t speak specifically about the feelings of open surgery, since both of mine were laparoscopic.
Can you give some details on what was done, just to round out your story? It’s an interesting one. What did they find, what did they do, was any of the original mesh removed or moved? Thanks. Here is a link to your original topic.
https://www.herniatalk.com/8826-recurrent-hernia-12-years-later