pinto
Forum Replies Created
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Just got back from a time out from all-things-hernia. As an update imaging tests came in showing presence of a hernia, something that was of no surprise—-left side IG, medium size as was the original. Dr. Kang apologized on behalf of his hospital and has been superlative in giving me full attention in answering my questions. He is also confident he can and will repair the recurrence.
What could have happened? Dr. Kang brought up the suturing. I think the original suturing was compromised because of my early hospital discharge. After one night in the hospital I returned to my hotel but experienced the most intense pain ever in my life–whenever the taxi cab rear tire hit a bump. The lateral vibration seemed to tear right through my loins. This by the way happened even a week later. Generally I only had pain by the taxi ride and when I had to get up from my bed. Just to raise myself on all fours required methodical movement millimeters at time; every move was in slow motion so as to forestall the pain. Did this happen in the hospital? NOT! Because I had a motorized bed which at a push of a button automatically raised me to a sitting position so I could leave the bed. During my week stay in Korea I had to use crutches because I had to! Dr. Kang and staff said, “no, this does not happen.” But it did to me. On my return home, I had to use a wheelchair in the airport; otherwise I could not have left. I could walk short distances but not long ones especially carrying a flight bag.
Dr. Kang does not agree with my assertion that these difficulties compromised the suturing. However, I humbly disagree based on the following: He recognizes that the Shouldice method has high medical standing, which by the way can require patients to stay in the hospital for as many as five days. Further Dr. Kang instructs his own patients when discharged from his hospital to cradle their groin for protection from car ride jolts, etc. Although he doesn’t agree with Shouldice’s five days, nevertheless he cannot throw my assertion out of hand. Suturing clearly must be protected after surgery. The issue is for how long. In my case, I needed a motorized bed and avoidance of car rides for at least some days. If I had those, recurrence would have been less likely.
William, I wish you to report about how UK doctors handle watchful waiting. That is, what criteria do they use for determining when a patient can have surgery. It is my understanding that for financial reasons the national health service requires doctors to push watchful waiting. Given that the UK health system pushes watchful waiting, then they must be pretty up on the matter. I would appreciate hearing about it if you become informed about it.
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William, I’m sure many people have or will have the same concern. My understanding is that the regular time between taking a leak is two hours. If much less than that, then it is worth checking out. You’re doing good in that regard. If I recall correctly, some docs think frequent urination can be a causation of hernia (but not in your case). My experience is that getting a hernia makes us watchful for things, maybe too much. You are not alone in having such concerns.
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@William Bryant, William, make sure your ultrasound is done following valsalva protocol; otherwise it is probably inconclusive.
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@drkang, you unfortunately have been misinformed by your assistant, Stephen. Did he tell you he banned me from emailing him? He apparently was upset that after months of my being mistreated by him that I should dare challenge the efficacy of your surgery. His action not only violated the role of “hospital chaplain,” but surely your own hospital best-practice policies, right? He is the only channel of communication with you and your hospital and you want him to tell a patient with a complication of your surgery not to contact him??
Did he tell you that at his request, repeat: at his request, I send him a photo of my groin showing a bulge? And I surely did, surely did. Did he also inform you that the ultrasound test was non-standard (not valvasa ultrasound). Anyone reading HerniaTalk will learn that valvasa is usually necessary if an ultrasound. I never asked for your diagnosis. I repeat: I never asked for you diagnosis. Rather I sought your guidance on general grounds about my bulge.
Did Stephen tell you that after I reported I had groin protrusion at the operation site that you did not reply until a month later? A month later! Did he tell you that due to his/your hospital putting me off that my seeking of your guidance went on for six months to no avail?!
Did he tell you that he told me multiple times you were too busy to answer my question? And sometimes I had to wait a whole week just to be told that?? And precisely at least one of those times you were posting at HerniaTalk, suggesting that YOUR patient with a complication from YOUR surgery is less important than commercializing your service?
I think that that sufficiently shows that I was severely mistreated by Stephen, your administrative assistant. As president of your hospital you have direct responsibility and let me at this time not go into some serious implications arising from these facts.
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Jack, thanks for the backup there. I couldn’t find the thread you mentioned. That’s what I had in mind.
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Interesting question, William. From my reading at Cleveland Clinic, lipoma seems to be cyst-like. No, what I have corresponds to my original hernia and is in the same place. Ever since my original hernia I wanted to know what could be an alternative condition. I could find none. This why Dr. Kang’s claim is so interesting. Nearly two years after a hernia operation a lump like the perviously original hernia is not necessarily a hernia? Despite months of emails asking about this, he never clarified his claim. (His claim was not about me but his own observation of such happening sometimes in his patients.) After months of being put off, I had to wonder if it was intentional.
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Unfortunately I couldn’t get guidance from our collective membership. Perhaps, Dr. Kang would clarify his statement: a swelling (a visible lump) after surgery that acts like a hernia is still not necessarily one?
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@Jack2021,
Sorry but I didn’t answer your question
>Are you happy to share which country you had/are having
>this experience in?
for I didn’t want to mention any names.However, after trying all avenues for resolution, I will reveal it now: in Korea with Dr. Kang.
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Here is one item about surgery in Germany but I don’t think it’s the one I had in mind. But it looks just as good:
https://herniatalk.com/forums/topic/my-meshless-hernia-repair-in-germany/ -
A recent post by a member here mentioned asking a surgeon what mesh they used and the answer “mesh” if I recall correctly. That says volumes and dovetails with my experience with some mesh docs who did not appear fully aware of the mesh used nor the possible complications. The attitude seemed like mesh operation is like slipping a coin in a machine for a drink–wham, you get your drink and on your way.
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@spinotza, great post. How did you become a swimmer–accidentally or you tried finding an option to running? How is it that you play tennis presumably pain-free but apparently not when running? Despite saying,
>I lost the fat, I feel better than ever<
you still can’t comfortably run? -
On the contrary you can be applauded. Did you read the comments to her piece? In totality, we learn a lot from it. I appreciated the post because I haven’t seen such before for both the wretchedness of the doc and then the info from the outpouring of comments. Don’t rush your decision unless of course your doc tells you. Apparently there are a lot of people who manage well despite hernia. I think you are from the UK. Did you catch the recent post from a UK-er who appeared to find a great doc in Germany? He was gleeful how attractive the option was for someone from UK.
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She’s disgraceful. Her peers ought to sanction her. She has sour grapes because she works as a general surgeon who likely earns less than her specialist counterpart and maybe has a more demanding job. She rationalizes why her job is better however by nearly slandering Shouldice doctors using questionable evidence.
She is an example how we laypeople can overestimate the intelligence of doctors. Note she gives lip service to following fact-based practice, yet contradicts herself by criticizing Shouldice by false or frivolous claims. She lacks the critical awareness or mindfulness that we would expect from a medical professional.
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William, no not in UK. But you are, right? And so I wanted to ask you: My understanding is that in UK, the public health service pushes watchful waiting because it is financially strapped. It wants to put off surgeries. So wouldn’t this result in UK having much experience with watchful waiting? The place to go for related advice? I particularly wanted to know what criteria is used there for determining the need for surgery.
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Sorry I just noticed your reply. I had non-mesh–pure tissue repair as is said.
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@William Bryant, gracious of you to say sorry. Thank you. My message was as much for Colin as for you because originally, way back when, I don’t think he understood my point about comparison making and may have taken it personally. So I didn’t want the “intentional” matter to reinforce that. Let me clarify please.
You suggested prolene might be an advancement on steel suture demonstrating that over time technology can improve medical practice. The Shouldice treatment Colin received in 1970 (approx.) is likely not the same as that done today.(Shouldice is also not a unified method: variants exist.) It has likely improved in some way. Because Colin expressed some disfavor comparatively with Shouldice, his comparison is therefore biased. The comparison was not equivalently made because the other surgery method was from 2021! It’s apples and oranges.
Furthermore, I never stated nor implied that comparison should not be made. As Colin later stated, he did not know his Shouldice treatment likely used steel suturing, which he now attributes the steel to his periodic tinges felt. Those tinges may have influenced his apparent disfavor with the Shouldice. In short, the basis of this present thread is faulty–it sets Shouldice up as a “strawman” in comparison to another surgery method (even if not intended!). It is irrefutable: an already disfavored older version of Shouldice is compared with a different surgery method of today.
Yes, compare the two methods or any others you want, but do so fairly. And yes, too, look at Colin’s experiences with both methods. That’s fine but again do so fairly. I think Colin’s purpose was simply to say, “Hey, I had both operations. Ask me whatever you like about it.” Of course very interesting and useful but what also came out–whether intended or not–was some misdirection by pitting the two approaches against each other unfairly.
Here’s something that probably many of you overlooked: Colin’s Shouldice passed the test of time: No recurrence. How about the other method? We don’t know yet: Colin’s operation was just months ago. Also, Shouldice has a lot of verifiable research studies in support. The other method does not.
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@William Bryant, in apparent reference to my point about Colin’s comparison, you wrongly imply I stated his bias was intentional. I never said nor implied it. Actually your recent remark about prolene proves my point. I agree his experiences are quite interesting and useful–indeed–but as I tried to point out technology over 30 years surely has advanced Shouldice in some way. (Your example of dental gas/injection is inapplicable because those techniques do not separate methodology; whereas this thread as titled has methodologies in contrast.) Thus Shouldice of 2021 should be the focal point not that of 1970 (approx.). As long as medical methods are fairly compared then all will be well I’m sure. Thank you.
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Thank you for that.
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I’m really disappointed to hear Doc Brown retired, if indeed he did. Also sorry to hear @Wes Adair you are ailing so. My best to you that you get the help you need. Finally, much appreciated to @drtowfigh and to @Goodintentions for your helpful replies. Hey, both of you, great to hear the shop talk between doctors in the linked video. Fascinating. Again, @Wes Adair, hang tough buddy.
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@Al mundo, are you seeing a hernia specialist or a doc, say, at a general hospital? Could it be that he normally does mesh (?) but agreed to do non-mesh. If so, I would be keen to note if he ever said, “I recommend …” It’s unclear your doc’s speciality. If he normally does mesh, the “I recommend” statement is important because it may shift more responsibility for outcome onto the patient. Further if he is a mesh doc then you ought to find out how experienced he is with pure tissue repair. Whatever his specialty, it would be worth finding out his stats–how often he does pure tissue repair and success rate. That may lead into talk of risk and related policy.