Good intentions
Forum Replies Created
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quote Sicily63:Otherwise, I stand as an example that mesh repair, in the hands of a qualified surgeon can work well.It’s good that you are one of the lucky ones. Thanks for sharing your story.
The hard part for people to understand in this mesh implantation problem, is “probability”. The odds, the luck involved. The bulk of the studies show that there is a 1 in 6 chance that a person will have chronic pain or discomfort from a mesh implantation.
One of the ironies of this is that it seems to take the blame off of the surgeon. The responsibility. They are doing everything perfectly, what they were trained to do, but the odds determine who wins and who loses. In other words, somebody else has loaded the gun, they are just pulling the trigger.
So your last comment was most correct. If a person wants to improve their odds of avoiding chronic pain and discomfort they should choose a tissue/suture repair. If it fails then they can choose a higher risk procedure, a mesh implantation.
It’s just the way the math has come out over time. One of six people will have problems. Your one of the five that, so far, apparently, will not. Congratulations, and good luck in the future. It’s still early, you’re young, in terms of the rest of your life.
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[USER=”2580″]DrBrown[/USER]
Got Unapproved, this might be a double
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Dr. Brown seems to understand the nerve functions and anatomy better than most.. [USER=”2580″]DrBrown[/USER]
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Good luck Arkj93. The recovery process can take a long time, as I’ve mentioned in other posts. I am two years out and still getting better, but am much better off overall. I can lead a normal life now, and am doing so, but the terrible experience and all of the effects it had on other members of my family, will be with me forever. Take care, and go slowly in your recovery. Slow and steady, to give the damaged areas time to adjust and rebuild.
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The polypropylene fibers of the mesh do not have the same elasticity as body tissue. So when the tissue stretches and the fibers don’t there is probably some tearing or debonding of the tissue from the fiber. This leads to more scarring/”healing”, and possibly movement of the mesh over many tearing and healing cycles. This is my theory, based on the materials used and the symptoms and results from my own experience, and my limited understanding.
I had the same problems with overhead movements. Only now, two years after removal, have I regained the ability to reach over my head, like, for example, trying to touch the ceiling, without feeling pain later.
Are the areas of the mesh getting flatter (if they aren’t perfectly flat already), and tighter? Does it feel like you have a thin plastic picnic plate in your abdomen? That’s what mine felt like.
You might find that your only choice is between certain activities and feeling comfortable. In other words, you have to give something up. In today’s standard of care, if you are alive and don’t have a hernia, the procedure was a success. The mesh is where it was placed, right or wrong, and that’s just how things are done today.
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You really should look outside your state if you can’t find anyone. Let the facts lead you to a good solution. It’s not just money and time. Your ability to make money will be severely compromised if you get a bad mesh repair. Think of your decision and the time and expense as investment in the rest of your life.
The medical professionals will all be done with you within months after the surgery. After that you’ll be just another file number that needs more procedures. More procedures means more business. Pain management, imaging, more operations…just more business.
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Here’s another Getinge product, from their Atrium purchase. Basically a copy of the other makers 3D products but with a “light spray” of Omega 3 fatty acid.
“Polypropylene mesh with a light spray coating of Omega 3 fatty acid (O3FA) on the monofilaments,”
Atrium originally polymerized the fatty acid, solidified it on the plastic mesh, but must have eventually realized that polymerizing the fatty acid converts it to a non-FDA-approved material. Somehow the FDA missed that point when they approved the first product which is the subject of several lawsuits.
So now, instead, they are spraying a polypropylene mesh product, meant to be placed outside of the digestive system, but inside the body, with a food supplement, the actual Omega 3 fatty acid, meant to be digested by acids and enzymes of the digestive system. Very simplistic idea but somehow it’s out there, being implanted in to people.
http://www.atriummed.com/EN/Biosurgery/Documents/009969-CentriFX.pdf
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Thank you for the acknowledgement Dr. Brown. I have thought more about the doctor in the video and realized that she was asked to make a video and to say some good things about mesh. It seems also that Dr.. Towfigh’s video was sort of an “equal time” video showing that non-mesh is being considered.
There was really no intellectual value to the first doctor’s video. No references or timelines mentioned so that people could learn about these new guidelines. Just some comforting words supporting the use of mesh everywhere possible. No need to think about it, all umbilical hernias should be repaired with “a mesh”. I still feel embarrassed for her.
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I think that your logic is on target. Of course you know, that business is not really about making the best product, it’s about maximizing shareholder value. It’s the major flaw of free market economics. The business model is not for the benefit of the consumer it’s for the benefit of the business owners, the shareholders. Unfortunately, in this case, maximum shareholder value comes at about a 15% chronic pain rate for the consumer.
You can see this in Johnson & Johnson. They are actually buying companies that have been shown to harm consumers, and are paying the settlement costs. But the business is still profitable and worth owning, for the shareholders.
Free market economics are based on the principle that everything has a monetary value. That it’s possible to quantify a ruined life in dollar terms.
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My larger posts are all getting blocked. I’ll try again later.
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Dr. Earl, of HerniaTalk, is,or was, promoting the Omega 3 coating. Sorry Dr. Earle. The research behind the product seems very sketchy. How do “issues encountered during hernia surgery” relate to long-term results of the mesh implantation. Where is the data? Your statement seems to be hanging, alone, in the middle of the promotional literature. No reference indicated. There are no supporting references for any of the statements in the sales brochure.
http://www.surgilife.gr/atrium/Atriu…esh-family.pdf
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Unapproved, try again
Here’s another Getinge product. Basically a copy of the 3D products but with a “light spray” of Omega 3 fatty acid.
“Polypropylene mesh with a light spray coating of Omega 3 fatty acid (O3FA) on the monofilaments,”
Atrium originally polymerized the fatty acid but must have eventually realized that polymerizing the fatty acid converts it to a non-FDA-approved material. Somehow the FDA missed that point when they approved the first product which is the subject of several lawsuits.
So now, instead, they are spraying a polypropylene mesh product, meant to be placed outside of the digestive system, but inside the body, with a food supplement, the actual Omega 3 fatty acid, meant to be digested by acids and enzymes of the digestive system. Very simplistic idea but somehow it’s out there, being implanted in to people.
http://www.atriummed.com/EN/Biosurgery/Documents/009969-CentriFX.pdf
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Here’s another Getinge product. Basically a copy of the 3D products but with a “light spray” of Omega 3 fatty acid.
“Polypropylene mesh with a light spray coating of Omega 3 fatty acid (O3FA) on the monofilaments,”
Atrium originally polymerized the fatty acid but must have eventually realized that polymerizing the fatty acid converts it to a non-FDA-approved material. Somehow the FDA missed that point when they approved the first product which is the subject of several lawsuits.
So now, instead, they are spraying a polypropylene mesh product, meant to be placed outside of the digestive system, but inside the body, with a food supplement, the actual Omega 3 fatty acid, meant to be digested by acids and enzymes of the digestive system. Very simplistic idea but somehow it’s out there, being implanted in to people.
http://www.atriummed.com/EN/Biosurgery/Documents/009969-CentriFX.pdf
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Here is a scary looking device, from Getinge. A nasty looking plug. Imagine trying to peel all of those fibers back out of the tissue if there is a problem. Plugs are the only mesh device that the Guidelines recommend against. Since the Guidelines are all pro-mesh, that says something. This has to be the worst form of plug that could be imagined.
http://www.atriummed.com/en/biosurgery/Documents/009966-PROLOOP.pdf
This one is also fascinating because they don’t even try very hard to explain its value. A single reference, about “Demonstrated stability”.. From a 2011 paper. Amazing.
* Mandai Y, Naito M, Hayashi T, Asano H, Ino H, Tsukuda K, Miyoshi S. Impact of endoscopic and histological evaluations of two different types of mesh plug for a groin hernia model. Surg Today. 2011 Nov;41(11):1512-8.
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Here is one of the odder new products. Onflex, used in the Onstep procedure. Already replaced by “Modified Onflex”.
Apparently they didn’t realize that the stiff ring around the device could poke people in sensitive areas. They somehow missed it in the extensive human-based product testing that must have been done before the product was released for usage in people..https://bdsurged.bd.com/videos/kugel…ng-onflex-mesh
https://www.crbard.com/Davol/en-US/products/OnFlex-Mesh
https://www.medline.com/product/Modi…D/Z05-PF165043
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There is no way to know. At 9 months the mesh should be firmly locked in to place and surrounded by collagen. “Incorporated”. A sudden sharp pain could be that something got strained or that the mesh rubbed something raw. So, like any injury, rest and hope are probably recommended. Might also be that an absorbable suture finally let go, apparently they can take longer than predicted to be absorbed, sometimes.
Wait, rest, hope. You could also contact your surgeon. They might have seen this before.