[Jnomesh]

Hi. The name of the mesh Facebook forum I am on is called fighters and survivors of all transvaginal and hernia mesh. I’m pretty sure it is a closed group but you can be invited on.
for me I ended up choosing dr. Belyanski for ancoilme if reasons
1) there was a member on the group who had his mesh removed by Belyanski and he got 100% out with no nerves cut
2) I was able to view a lot of dr. Belyanski s removals in you tube and there was something very percise, exact and in a weird way gentle about the removals. I saw some other surgeons removals and they just looked “rough”
3) Ramshaw had a long waiting time just to be seen
4) Belyanski diagnosed what was wrong with me as he saw definitively on my cat scan that my mesh had shifted and folded-this was huge as I knew I wasn’t crazy after all
5) when my wife and I met with him we were very impressed and he took the time to talk in depth with us we both left feeling he was the guy to do the operation
6) a cherry on the Sunday was that Belyanski was only a 3-4 hour drive from me and I had relatives out in Maryland. I liked this as I felt if I ever needed to go back it was just a drive away

of you you end up getting mesh removal remember the first step is to get it out safe and as much as possible without a bias to cut the nerves.
there are some removal surgeons that have a impetus to cut the nerves along with removal which in my opinion should be avoided. If some of the nerves have to be cut because they are fought up in the mesh them so be it but they shouldn’t automatically be cut. Some guys have severe issues once they are cut others do ok.
also you should know going in that just Bc you get the mesh removed it isn’t guaranteed that you will be 100%. Quite the contrary most of the guys o correspond with are about 90% better and are glad they got it removed. They alll including me still have some amount of pain or issues. We are all under a year in our recovery (me 7 months) and I’ve heard many people mention it is a process and for some healing continues well past the repair mark.
the other thing you will want to keep in mind no matter who you choose is to have a back up plan should you need a hernia realized post removal.
for many especially for lapro inserted and lapro removals the hernia defect is filled in from scar tissue and there is no repair needed.
i had a plan with dr. Bekyanski that should there be a hernia he after removal would would repair the hernia with sutures from a open approach .
i know dr. Shirwin Towfigh in LA is perfecting a laparoscopic repair.
also be prepared that you find any definitive approach or info on what to do post removal. For example, how long to rest, should you do PT or not and if so when should you start. It really is the wild Wild West when it comes to mesh problems, mesh removal, and mesh removal recovery.

[Jnomesh]

The other guys I was referring to are from a Facebook mesh forum. For me I had discomfort post my mesh implantation which was now almost 7 years ago. It felt there was something he’s y stuck in there and in addition to this feeling there would’ve these flare ups a couple of times a year that would be really painful a lot of burning etc. I would go back to the implanting surgeon and my GP and get tests MRI etc and all would come back fine-so I just went on living life the best I could. Then last year something happened that was the most painful experience I had ever had like something was ripping inside me-incredible burning pain leg feeling like lava was running down it. I’m. Addition a few months later I fought a bad cough and felt sweillknf i my stomach it was like I had a heavy brick in it. So I had this burning pain in my groin and thigh and heaviness in the abdomen-again all tests MRI and cat scans came back normal. That’s when I joined the Facebook group and learned of dr. Bekyanski o sent him my cat scan and he found that the mesh had shifted and looked to be folded. It was a godsend finally a answer after all these years-the damn mesh.
since the removal the heavy sick feeling of something stuck in my stomach is gone. I k or longer feel sick. However, I still have some issues when I sit on which I get some burning in my thigh still. Not sure if it is scar tissue or some permanent t nerve damage but am remaining hopeful that with Rome it will continue to improve

[Jnomesh]

Hi just thought I’d respond too. I had my mesh removed by dr. Igor Belyanski last summer. It was implanted laparoscopically and removed same way but robotic assisted. One advantage of robotic surgery is the camera is 3D which can give a clearer view of the structures. It also allowed the the instruments to move 360 degrees which the human hands just can’t do. However, like any inter surgery it really comes down to the skill and experience of the surgeon and not the technique.
i also had zero nerves cut (nerectomied ) and I’d be very hesitant with surgeons who seem to do these neurectomeis along with the removals even if there isn’t a reason to (ie merves caugh up in the mesh) the neurectomies can be hit or miss.and sometimes cause more pain. I also think it can possibly be an indicator of the surgeons lack of confidence in the removal of they automatically cut the nerves.
Id also be wary of a surgeon who is only saying he can probably get only so much mesh out before he Ben goes in-the goal should to be get it all out and leave as little as possible behind of it is on structures deemed to risky to remove. I had 90% of my mesh removed some chards were left on the spermatic cord, and illiac vein and artery.
im on a mesh forum and there have been 4 guys since me to get there mesh out and including me 6 guys in total (this is just from the forum bekyanski has removed many others). 4 out of the 6 the mesh was removed 100% and two 90%. Two of the guys had their mesh removed open as this is how it was placed and 100% was moved none of the patients had any of their nerves cut.
im finishing up 7 months. I’m about 90% better.
some issues resolved others are still there to some degree. I can work and be with my family doing family things which wasn’t the case before removal. I’ve been told it’s a journey by others and that the 6 month and year mark are important land marks in the recovery. It seems a lot of people don’t get back to 100% but are glad they got the mesh removed and a lot report 90-95% better.
ofcourse it is patient dependent and depends on many variables. Like good intentions when my mesh was removed there were no hernias present . This seems to be more the case with laparoscopic implantation and less so with open removals so you will need to plan out if there is a hernia how it will be repaired. If you are like most of us there is probably no at you want mesh to be reimplanted so it is important that the removal surgeon is confident he can do a pure tissue repair.
but to me I’d consider it a red flag if the surgeon is already saying he might only be able to get 65% out.
After doing my research for me it came down to see. Belyanski or Bruce Ramshaw. Both meant I would have to travel. Definitely speak to 2 or 3 of the top removal surgeons and be willing to travelsend you scans and operative reports for their review. I’d avoid going to a local surgeon just to stay local. I’ve heard some guys accounts who went to local surgeons for removal only to Ha e a small % of the mesh removed, some said it was too dangerous and other said they couldn’t remove any.
step was is to get as much of the mesh out and as safely as possible! Best wishes.

[Jnomesh]

Personally having my mesh ball up into a rock hard ball and suffering for 5 years as all the professionals said all is well- I would get the mesh removed. I don’t say this flippantly but the fact that your hernias came back so soon after surgery means the mesh probably moved and is even more probable since the mesh was self fixantkng and not sutured or stapled down. So to leave that failed mesh inside of you would be crazy in my opinion. It can continue to migrate and attach to all sorts of structures and become way worse. Get it out while it is still relatively new inside you before it can go more damage. My situation got been more dire 5 years later and become severely more painful.
Get it in your mind that you will have to travel.
to have your mesh removed laparoscopically (mine was placed and removed laparoscopically ) you will want to go to either dr. Brice Ramshaw, dr. Igor Belyanski or Shirwin Towfigh.
dr. Towfigh has been doing laparoscopic repairs on select patients and this might fit the bill for you. Have ithe Mesh removed and the hernias repairs innone Surgery. Ofcourse you could have the mesh removed and then the hernias repaired non mesh openly in the same surgery if you don’t want mesh. And I rx not getting more mesh placed.
there are really only two doctors I know of. Who repair hernias without mesh and are experts:
dr. Kevin Peterson in Vegas and dr. William brown in San Fran. So another option would be to do a two staged process get the mesh removed and at a later date after you recover get a open pure tissue repair.
therr is also the Shouldice Hospital in Toronto which does nothing but non mesh repairs.
I had my mesh removed by Igor Belyanski and when it was removed the hernia was no longer present filled in by scar tissue sobtjerr was no need to do a repair but for you that will be different .
best wishes

[Jnomesh]

I’m not a doctor but I would highly consider removing the mesh and then in my opinion get a non mesh repair. But definitely consider getting the mesh out. If you don’t and you get more mesh put in the opposite way it is called a mesh sandwich and is even more difficult to remove.
i would not want a failed mesh left inside of me.
reaesrch experience surgeons who remove mesh:
dr. Igor Belyanski, dr. Towfigh, dr. Bruce Ramshaw . I would not go back to the same implanting surgeon-it sounds like he totally screwed up in the mesh placement or something.
its early so it can be easier to get the mesh out.

[Jnomesh]

Yes there is the Shouldice Hospital in Canada that does this pure tissue repair..
on another forum a dr. Garvey I’m Austrailia is frequently mentioned who does non mesh repairs (as well as removed mesh too)

[Jnomesh]

Lost N pain: did they do the nerve block using ultrasound guidance? Using ultrasound guidance they can get close to the nerve without hitting it or any other unintended areas.

[Jnomesh]

I don’t have a review but since I live in NY and if I ever have a hernia recurrence i was looking jntonthe surgeon at this hospital. His bio says he worked at the Shouldice Hospital in Toronto and has performed over 650 of these non mesh repairs. Finding a surgeon to perform a non tissue repair and who has tons of experience doing these is very hard in the whole U.S.
with all of the issues surrounding Mesh repairs I think it is a godsend that there is skmebe who specializes in a non mesh repair

[Jnomesh]

Dr.igor Belyanski is a expert in reading cat scans. If all comes back normal I’d send a CD scan to him and see what he has to say..
i to have heard that CT scan can damage the mesh or harden it but I’m not sure if it is true or not. Maybe Dr. Towfigh can chime in. My feeling is this maybe true but that you most likely wluld have to have a lot of scans to have this kind of affect.

[Jnomesh]

This is a great idea Dr. Towfigh as there is definitely a subset of population that has and is suffering from mesh issues which is now the gold standard.
i agree a lot with Chaunce123 and his many suggestions. My mesh was folded inside of me and for 5 years I suffered but was told by surgeons, scans and tests that everything was fine so:
1) there definitely needs to be a way for mesh problems to show up more easily on scans-so if something is fundamentally wrong it can be identified.
2) in the meantime ither surgeons and radiologists need to be trained by those who can read cat scans or MRI’s to see the mesh and if it is doing what it is supposed to do (folded, migrated) in my opinion this training should be mandatory before a surgeon is allowed to use mesh
3) all hernia surgeons should be trained on how to successfully remove mesh or be armed with the names of the experts that do remove mesh so if a patient is suffering they aren’t simply whisked off to pain management as the surgeon wiped his hands clean of the patient.
3) there absolutely needs to be a specialty hospital like the Shouldice Hospital in Toronto locates here in the U.S that specializes in non mesh repairs as an alternative to mesh.
The shoukdice hospitals data reports that they have a less than 1% recurrence rate and a less than 1% chronic pain. Um this fly’s in the face of what we hear from the average surgeon that Mesh reduces recurrent rates when they report that Mesh has a recurrent rate of 3% which is 3x the rate of the Shouldice Hospital-3x. The read between the lines is that A) surgeons in training get very little training in non mesh repairs and focus in mesh repairs-so ofcourse in the non mesh repairs outside of the shoukdice hospitals will have a higher rate of recurrence. It’s a self fulfilling prophecy and a horrible loop that needs to be stopped. Patients need choices and a place to go that can give them the best chance to have the best care and that isn’t the case now-it’s really Mesh or nothing.
4) all patients need to be tested to see if they have a reaction to propylene before mesh is implanted. I know the numbers of these cases maybe small but god almighty I can’t think of anything worse than sticking a plastic permanent device in someone who is allergic and has a allergic reaction or infection to the mesh and then has to be told it’s not the mesh or we can’t remove the mesh or have the mesh removed and then sutured with propylene sutures. Just cruel.
5) I think the size of the mesh used in laparoscopic hernia surgery needs to be re-explored. I get that it covers all 3 areas of groin hernia by I’ve also read that the large mesh size is also a by-product if the lapro surgery itself.
Unfortunately when something goes wrong with the mesh it can damage and devastate so many structures because of how much surface it covers
6) there needs to be a shared data base for people who have to have there mesh removed so we can develop more protocols for all of the different patient variables
7) and there needs to be more of a focus on aftercare for mesh removal. What should people be doing (PT or no PT, supplements, etc) and when to start these activities (right away, 3 months , 6 months. It’s crazy the patient has just had a piece of mesh ripped out of their body and the departing instructions can’t be “listen to your body”…”.see ya”. In my opinion there needs to be a facility in the U.S. that is geared to mesh problems from A-Z : pain management, different therapies, mesh removal and care post mesh removal.
just some thoughts

[Jnomesh]

Hi. I would like to throw in another top quality hernia surgeon to consider. Dr. Igor Belyanski in Annapolis MD. He is definitely worth a consult. If you are located in a different state you can send any docs/tests/scans to him to review. He is a expert in reading cat scans. I can’t remember if you have had any tests-if not you get a scan done if you have gotten a scan you can request a CD copy of the scan and send it to dr. Igor Belyanski.
and see what he has to say.
i nbke this is not a mesh issue since you had it repaired with no mesh but I wanted to add that dr. Belyanski was the only surgeon after 5 years and numerous tests that my mesh was folded on a cat scan and I had the mesh successfully removed. He is now doing quite a few removals and I have been in touch with others who have had there mesh successfully explanted after suffering in pain.
It takes a highly skillled surgeon to successfully remove mesh and 99.9% of surgeons who implant mesh can’t remove it-so I’d seek his opinion as he is a expert in the abdomen/groin area. Hope this helps.

[Jnomesh]

Oh regarding the nerve blocks. First go to a place that does ultrasound guided nerve blocks so they can better locate the specific nerve. Based on your symptoms they inject the nerve with a local anesthetic and sometime also a steroid. The block is meant to be more diagnostic ie if the pain goes away then the have determined which nerve is affected and then they can offer something called pulsed radio frequency ablation which for some people can cure the pain or last for upnto a year and then it is repeated. For some people I’ve read that repeated nerve blocks 2 or 3 over a 2 or 3 week slam can reduce the pain and be somewhat therapeutic. The nerve blocks for dis not hurt st all-it was hard to tell how well they worked Bc you are lying down for the procedure and I have no pain when lying down it number the are pretty good though and I think overall helped me but deep down I knew something was wrong and it was more than just nerve related but I believe between the nerve medicine Gabapentin and the shots and the tens machine all got me to be able to get through the work day and spend time with my wife and kids instead of writing in pain in bed all day. I was all set to to do the pulsed radio frequency ablation when I set up an appointment with a surgeon in NYC who I found other people who had their mesh removed by him. I gave him all my scans and he listened to my whole story and sat with my wife and I for over and hour and after he reviewed my MRI he looked st me and my wife and said he believed the mesh had moved-he was the first surgeon to admit it was the mesh.
However, I just wanted to get another opinion and that’s when I sent all my scans to dr, Belyanski and definitively said he saw the mesh had shifted and folded on the cat scan. I made the decisions to go with dr. Belyanski for removal. He was able to remove the mesh while preserving all my inguinal nerves.
if you google him he has posted videos of his mesh removal online and he has quite a few of them posted which gave me more confidence to use him. He does the removal robotically if the mesh was placed laparoscopically which issues a high definition camera and gives more clarity to all the structures. Since my surgery I’ve corresponded with 5 other people who have had their mesh removed by him and all are happy with their choice. Some had their mesh removed openly with him.
its a tough choice and brutal journey. Dontons if research and make the best informed decision you can.
If I had found dr. Belyanski earlier and had my mesh removed earlier for example before last FEB when the debilitating pain started I continually wonder if I would if avoided the severe pain and possible permanent damage that the mesh further did.

[Jnomesh]

Hi. So I had the bard 3D maxx mesh put in laparoscopically. This mesh is named 3D Bc it is concave and is/was supposed to betttrr fit the inguinal region. But from my research there are a little issues with it one of them being that it tends to fold over or clam shell on itself. My was mich worse as it had actually become a waded ball.
after years of tests and visiting surgeons everyone said everything f looked fine.
You need to find a surgeon who specializes in mesh removal to get an honest answer and who will listen to your complaints. A few of them read the scans themselves and no what to look for.unfkrtunately touvwill most likely have to travel.
dr. Igor Belyanski in MD saw on my cat scan that the mesh was folded and had also shifted-for me this is the asnswer I was so relieved to hear it explained to me why I had been in so much discomfort over the years. I had no doubt in my mind that it had to come out-it was killing me since last Feb and my stomach felt all twisted and I just felt sick all this in addition To the burning pain I had when sitting. I didn’t want the mesh to continue to more bodily harm. The surgeon advised on removing the mesh and putting a new mesh back in but I declined Bc of what happened to me with the mesh. It was a 3 1/2 hour surgery to remove the mesh and to illustrate how much damage this stuff can do it had attached to my bladder, spermatic cord, illiac vein and artery and other stuff.
I’m 6 months post up and am taking it slow. I don’t feel sick like I did from the mesh balling up on me and am moving around fine. The feeling of having a brick in me is gone. But I still have some discomfort when sitting and still feel some irritation on my upper thigh. I’m not sure if what took place last FEb will be permanent or if the area will continue to heal.
I never advise people to have their mesh removed as everyone is different and there is no telling for sure how someone will do lost removal so many factors.
however if you mesh is folded and I think you mentioned yours was/is-I personally think it has to come out especially if you are in pain. There is a good chance it can get worse. You mentioned your surgeon found the mesh to be folded did he/she remove it? Or leave it in you?
the top hernia mesh removal surgeons I felt comfortable with after doing my research was dr. Bruce Ramshaw, dr. Towfigh, and dr. Igor Belyanski. Dr. Peterson is another surgeon but he only removed mesh openly and I had mine put in laparoscopically.
I feel like I could exercise but am going to take it slow and let the area fully heal.

[Jnomesh]

Hi. My mesh was folded and balled up and I had it removed this last summer after being in for 6 years. For about 5 years I felt a heaviness feeling like something was in there especially when sitting and had occasional flare ups but they would only last a short time and I was otherwise functioning ok in life. Then last feb I felt pain line I never felt before burning in the groin and all over my left leg. Couldn’t work for about 4 weeks. Anyways on my journey to figure out what was wrong and try and function while I did this-I did three things besides seeing surgeons and getting every scan imaginable:
1) I got a tens machine. Like you found very little I nod where to put the electrodes. I tried in the inguinal region but like you it felt good while the machine was kn but when I turned the machines off the nerves would flare up. So I ended up putting the two electrodes on my lower back on each side and I found this helped to make the lain for example while I was driving or sitting-like you walking from me was much better than sitting. This helped mask the nerve pain and when I stopped the machine I didn’t have any flare ups afterwards. Anyways I don’t know if this method is therapeutic but it helped me get back to work and mask the burning pain.
2) I also went to pain management Bc I was desperate. We did neve blocks of different nerves I don’t know how much this helped but it seemed to help a little as we focused in on the ilkioguinal nerve and lateral femoral cutaneous nerve
3) the pain mangent doctor prescribed gabapentin
I started all this in early April about 6 weeks. After the burning pain started. By May I was able to function ie back to work-sitting was still hard though.
Anyways in June I sent all my scans to a surgeon and found the mesh was folded and had the mesh removed. The balled up heavy feeling in my lower stomach is gone but the issues that started last Feb are still there but no where as bad as they were in Feb.
i feel like there is some scar tissue or something f in there that compressed the nerves when I sit. Some chairs are fine others are a nightmare.
walkinfg is fine.
hope this helps

[Jnomesh]

I’ve heard reports that cat scans can cause the mesh to harden (and don’t know if this is true or not) but not MRI’s

[Jnomesh]

Ramshaw and Belyanski are both top choices. I had my mesh removed by dr. Belyanski and would highly rx him. Ramshaw from what I’ve heard is excellent and may offer a more comprehensive idea of what to expect after surgery. I’ve spoken to a young gentleman who is getting his umbilical mesh removed by Belyanski in a couple of weeks.
belyanski is doing more and more removals and gaining a very high reputation.
The only negative I see with Ramshaw is your pain level and that he is often booked for a while-where I believe for Belyanski you can move quicker if your pain is out of control. I had my consult with him on July 17th and removal on August 11th.
Both excellent choices-I wouldn’t add anyone else if you can make it out to see either Ramshaw or Belyanski.

[Jnomesh]

If the mesh is folded it can absolutely cause pain. My mesh was folded over and had to be removed. You can look at my posts for the details

[Jnomesh]

I read a article/paper that said the repair is 75% healed at 6 months and 100% healed at about a year. I’ve also heard from others and my own surgeon that even when 100% healed from the hernia repair the area is still only 80% as strong as before the hernia.

[Jnomesh]

I’d air on side of caution and wait 3 months. You don’t want to mess the repair up. And then go light there and work your way up. I’d maybe think of a alternative to squats as they are wan of the few excecises that cause an increase in intra-abdominal pressure.
im not a doctor just my opinion..
there are studies out there that show that the area can take up to a year to be 100% healed.

[Jnomesh]

Biological mesh is permanent implant.