Good intentions
Forum Replies Created
-
[USER=”3099″]VegasKnight[/USER] I don’t think that your misalignment will have any effect on potential mesh movement. It can move in a perfectly aligned body. That should not be part of the reasoning behind mesh versus suture repair.
There is no way, at this time, to predict who will have mesh problems, or even who will have problems from a suture repair. One key point to consider is that it is much simpler to fix a suture repair problem than a mesh repair problem.
Read the posts on the forum. There is a lot here. Several good choices if you can travel.
-
quote ajm222:this issue you have here with your abdominal wall and needing to leave the top button undone – was that something that was an issue before removal as well?
[USER=”2051″]ajm222[/USER] Yes, there was only a short time period, a few weeks after implantation, where my clothes fit normally. I had only been walking for recovery up to that point. Once I started getting more active the area swelled and got stiff again. When the mesh was inside the area around my navel would actually get sore.
After three years of the mesh I think that so many cycles of damage, healing, and “restructuring” had happened that there was a lot of extra tissue/collagen built up, that remained after the mesh was removed. It seems to be reducing, very slowly, as I continue to get back in to “shape”, literally.
-
quote dh305:[USER=”2029″]Good intentions[/USER] i have the same thing going on with my abdomen (round/hard) since the surgery. Any idea of the cause? I thought it was just because I haven’t worked my abs in 6 months.
[USER=”2987″]dh305[/USER] Tissue grows in to the mesh and locks up the fibers. They can’t slide by each other anymore like they can when the fibers are loose and surrounded by air, before it’s implanted in the body. The combination of mesh and tissue/collagen is not soft or flexible. Because they use so much mesh a large plate of stiff tissue is created, instead of a small stiff area. That is my theory. Stiff thick tissue is left after the mesh is removed, that’s why I still have trouble with the button. I think that it will reduce over time as the body restructures it.
That’s my thinking. I think that as long as the mesh is there the area will always be stiff. The attempts to expel or destroy the foreign body will continue.
Sorry, that probably doesn’t make you feel more hopeful. Good luck.
-
Consider Dr. Kang in Korea. Good luck.
-
I am not a doctor but I think that if you search for momof4 and mamadunlop’s posts you might find some good information. I’m just working from memory but here are their posts…
https://www.herniatalk.com/search?q=momof4&searchJSON=%7B%22keywords%22%3A%22momof4%22%7D
https://www.herniatalk.com/search?q=mamadunlop&searchJSON=%7B%22keywords%22%3A%22mamadunlop%22%7D
-
I just posted something about Dr. Billing, linked below. There is probably more detail in some of my other posts also.
Dr. Kang is known for non-mesh hernia repair, but I think that he will remove mesh also. But, a laparoscopic removal might be best for you, considering how much area has probably been covered by the mesh in your original surgery.
I just got back from a vigorous trail hike and barely thought about the old mesh problems. One left over effect though is that my abdominal wall is still thicker and stiffer than it had been before surgery. I still often have to leave the top button undone on my pants.
It has barely been four months for you. It will probably be difficult to get your insurance company to pay for removal without having to go through months of “pain management” beforehand.
Good luck. [USER=”3098″]deeoeraclea[/USER]
https://www.herniatalk.com/12176-one-year-seven-months-since-mesh-removal
-
Here is the Hernia page link – https://www.transformweightloss.com/services/hernia-surgery
-
[USER=”2923″]Joshio4473[/USER] How are you doing? I don’t know if you have talked to Dr. Billing or not but here is a link to his new practice’s web site. I hope that you have found a solution since your last post of August. Good luck.
-
quote inguinalpete:Was removal done laproscopically?
[USER=”2514″]inguinalpete[/USER] I don’t know why I never responded to your message. Maybe it was “Unapproved” for a while and I missed it. Sorry.
Dr. Billing used the TAPP procedure to remove the mesh. Entering the abdominal cavity, to where the intestines are. Viewing the abdominal wall from inside, cutting through the peritoneum and peeling it off of the mesh, peeling the mesh off of the fascia/muscle wall, and various other things that it was attached to. Then replacing the peritoneum over the damaged area and gluing (or stitching) it all back together.
It’s been almost exactly two years and I do not wake up in the morning anymore thinking about what I’ll need to avoid doing for the day. No more taking care of the mesh, it’s gone. Still unbelievable that the implantation was, and is, a “standard of care”. It’s still happening and people are still being damaged. I had the mesh implanted in December of 2014, five years ago (seems like ten). Not much has changed, just several new products, barely different from the old bad ones.
-
People supply many details about their procedures. You can copy a portion of the report and paste it as an image or upload the documents, or cut and paste text. Some of the surgeons on the site will look at your report if you send it to them. It’s good to have it in hand, you’ll probably understand it better as you learn and might see something meaningful in the future.
Plus it’s good to see which combination of procedure and material cause problems. The internet is the only place, apparently, that this type of data is shared. Everyone else is working in a silo, and I think that many involved like it that way. If there was clear evidence that all mesh products are the same, no difference by knit pattern, material, or implantation method, and that 15% of mesh implantations have problems that would be terrible for business. Better not to know. My cynical side, again.
-
quote SFIrishGuy:I reviewed the medical records with a head surgeon and nothing out of the ordinary was documented. It was routine. I went in for an ultrasound to see if the mesh was intake and indeed it was or they said they cannot see any evidence of reoccurrence.
If you can, post or transcribe the actual surgical notes to the forum. All that has been discussed so far is “laparoscopic mesh implantation”. The actual notes will/should have the details of your actual experience. Any errors, or oddities about your situation, should be recorded there. One surgeon’s “normal” is another surgeon’s “never should have done that”. There is no real “ordinary”.
And you might think that the people you have talked to have actually examined your records but I found that often the doctors are too busy to dig deep. They will read a few words then assume the rest, and think that they can do a diagnosis in 15 minutes or less.
I don’t know Dr. Nguyen but I saw a well-respected surgeon about my mesh problems and he did not even read my history before the visit. He just assumed that I had had a recurrence. The visit was a complete waste of everyone’s time, and my money. since he only had 15 minutes to learn everything from scratch, in a conversation.
-
Here are a couple of articles about wound healing that might help understanding of how things can change over months and years.
Notice that the new collagen/tissue formed during healing is weaker than “normal” tissue. So the inelastic mesh fibers are surrounded by weak and inelastic collagen. It’s not surprising that things tear and get strained months and years after the implantation, if a person considers the fundamental properties of the materials involved, the collagen and the mesh fibers, and applies some scientific and technical principles.
Anyway, you should be in the “remodeling” phase, which can last a year or more, apparently. Each tear or strain needs to reheal, which will probably cause more shrinkage, and might induce more strains or tears. Hopefully hings will level out for you at a place that works for you.
This is just my understanding, I’m not a doctor. Good luck.
-
[USER=”2987″]dh305[/USER] When I had the mesh inside me removed Dr. Billing found that it was surrounded by edema. Body fluids that result from damage or inflammation. This was at three years after implantation. In other words, the area around the mesh never really completely “healed”, It was in a suspended state of constant attempts at healing.
I also found that after certain types of physical activity I would get signs of blood or bruising at the entry point in my navel for the laparoscopic tools. I had mesh implanted from side to side and overlapping in the center, the linea alba. It seemed like there was a channel along the linea alba up to my navel that was collecting fluid.
My main point is that I wasn’t a “slow healer” but instead I was a “never healer”.
I still recommend seeing a surgeon who has years of experience in treating mesh problems. Dr. Belyansky seems to be a believer in mesh problems, along with Dr. Billing, and, of course, Dr. Brown. Dr. Kang also, in Korea. They have seen the effects and accepted, psychologically, that the problems are real, and treatable. I think that many surgeons just can’t let themselves believe that what they are doing, with mesh implantation, is wrong. It’s not why they became doctors yet they have been trained to do it, and have no recourse to better methods, without separating from the safety of the crowd of hernia “repair” surgeons.
Here is a link to your Topic describing the details of your procedure, for reference. Good luck. Be persistent.
-
quote Reborn334:Hi. My name is Carl Sparks, Sept 3 2017 I had laparoscopic inguinal hernia surgery. Absolutely no post op pain. 6 months after my strangulated right inguinal hernia repair i began to swell at the surgery site. 3 -4 months later burning stinging and a numbness began with a constant dull yet steady pain. My gabapentin dose was increased yet over the next 3 months I developed more painful symptoms.
What type of mesh was used for the repair? They are not all the same.
The persistent fever might be a sign that you are having a true “mesh reaction”. I am not a doctor but am surprised that they are treating the pain but not focused on the fever. You might need to find a new doctor, the one who implanted the mesh might be trying to “save” it instead of you.
-
Here’s another one. Ovitex. The company that makes it is about to go public. They have amazing confidence in the product, based a on a 32 patient study, at one year. If there are problems, I can’t imagine trying to peel the polymer fibers out that make up 5% of the structure. The long term results on real patients will be fascinating, I’m sure.
https://www.telabio.com/ovitex.html#ovitex-prs
-
quote Oakcomi:. Burning, pinching, and stinging. No pain sitting or lying down. I try to get up often and at least stand but the pain walking brings me to tears.
Interesting that the pain only happens when you’re moving. If it’s only been 3 days then there are still raw surfaces exposed, I would imagine, that need to heal, in addition to the sutures pulling.
Can you describe the difference between your procedure and the “normal” Shouldice procedure? What is modified?
Good luck.
-
Are you getting any exercise at all? Walking or moving around the house? It helps to get the fluids moving at the repair site. I had situations where rest did nothing to alleviate pain but exercise did. It was counterintuitive.
Here is a recent Topic with similar problems.
https://www.herniatalk.com/14542-modified-shouldice-post-op-pain-and-walking-expectation
Could you describe the type of surgery that you had and the materials used? There is a surprising range of variation, even for open repairs. The Prolene Hernia (PHS) system, Onflex mesh for Onstep, plugs and patches, coated materials, etc. They all have their own issues.
[USER=”3086″]abrill[/USER]
-
Hello [USER=”3024″]andrew1982[/USER] I was not planning to make a case against mesh. I was just trying to understand what was done for your repair. Your details are very unclear. There are many types of non-mesh repairs. The Shouldice method, Desarda, Kang, and many others. “Minimal” usually refers to the size of the incision, the visible part. Not the actual area “invaded”.
Just trying to help. Good luck.
-
[USER=”3024″]andrew1982[/USER] notify
-
quote andrew1982:-hernioplasty (minimal repair technique)
Are you sure that you did not have a mesh repair? The word “minimal” is a word that really is only meaningful relative to certain other procedures. Some open techniques are considered “minimal” even though they use mesh. “Minimal” is a popular word, misused, literally, often. The details of what exactly was done during the hernioplasty might help you understand the source of your problem.
And “hernioplasty” is a word generally used to describe a mesh repair. So, by your description, and the definition of the word, mesh was used for the repair.
Some of the open mesh techniques, like the Onstep procedure, involve pushing the mesh all the way down to the pubic bone.