[mitchtom6]

You’d be better to travel. Dr Brown or Dr Towfigh in CA will do non mesh. Or fly to the Shouldice Clinic in Toronto. People travel from across the world to go there for non-mesh repairs, including a sitting US Senator.

You are smart to avoid the mesh, as many of us can attest. That stuff can mess you up big time.

This is a real surgery and you need to spend the $$$ to have it treated by a true specialist. Don’t settle for convenience. Just my 2cents from someone who made that mistake.

[mitchtom6]

I have the same phenomenon. Lifting causes real discomfort and pain in my spot, although the pain usually does not present itself until a few hours later, or the next day. Will linger for weeks. I have totally backed off from lifting weights altogether due to this. Sounds like a recurrence. But with 2 MRIs and 4 independent exams from Gen Surgeons, no bulge can be found. Mesh irritation? Perhaps, but a total guessing game. @herniahelper

[mitchtom6]

Don’t mean to hijack the thread, but I would like to welcome @ajm222 back to the forums. Hope you are faring well. Was wondering how you were doing. Maybe a PM if you’d rather.

[mitchtom6]

All that’s to say, you’ll probably be well advised to find somebody else.

[mitchtom6]

Sorry you aren’t having a good experience w/ your doc.

I quit going to my surgeon after my complications/follow ups. She was always too hurried and would literally spend under a minute with me before taking off into the hallway. I remember having to call her back into the room so that I could ask questions and get some sense of what’s going on. Didn’t like that very much.

I visited a number of other docs out of frustration. It became clear that it’s a guessing game, and that there are very few solid answers. The protocol is to get imaging done, and if nothing shows, then by default, you can reason it to be a mesh complication. Somewhat unsettling, though, to be confronted with the prospect of mesh removal based on speculation/informed guessing, and without absolute confirmation of the problem. Anyway, I’m starting to veer off topic.

I found another doc who spent more time with me. He’s given me two cortisone shots. Had one 11 months ago, and had a follow up 1 month ago. They helped resolve the perpetual bruising on my pubic bone. Still get sharp jabs with movement though. Any weight lifting sets me up for discomfort the following day. I was glad he actually took ‘somebody else’s problem.’ Now, he’s starting to recommend pain management. Am I being passed on? Probably, yes. I mean, what else can the man do?

[mitchtom6]

Interesting analysis by @pinto. The active/passive grammar probably does offer clues into the psychology, perhaps at an unconscious level. I don’t want to be too presumptuous, but the mere existence of this article seems like a tacit admission that there is a problem with the mesh-for-all approach to hernia repair.

Certainly, it is not so benign as to justify its position as the default approach to small hernia repair, in my opinion.

[mitchtom6]

Interestingly, this article matches a blog on his website, verbatim, replete with the opening quote. Only a handful of sentences were edited out for the General Surgery News publication. The blog entry was from 7.5 months ago.

The “high brain/low brain” motif is common to a number of his blog entries, which I have browsed through…..I knew when I read your post that I had seen that verbiage before.

https://www.bruceramshaw.com/blog/evolving-mindset-series-when-both-sides-are-wrong

[mitchtom6]

x2 on what Scarletville said. Surgery is the only real fix, short of divine intervention.

You will read things online about homeopathic solutions/breathing techniques/massage, which you can safely disregard. Anybody who found relief via such methods likely did not have a hernia to begin with, but rather, a misdiagnosis (which does happen).

If your hernia is bilateral, then you actually have two of them – one on each side. That’s what I had, albeit, mine were indirect.

I would advise that you get a second opinion before making any plans, though, just as good practice. A skilled general surgeon can make the diagnosis without imaging in most instances, doing the classic “turn your head and cough” technique. If your suspected hernias are not causing you any pain or discomfort, then you don’t have to pursue treatment. Granted, I have to assume you are at least somewhat symptomatic by dint of the fact you had imaging performed.

Best of luck, Mike. We’re hoping you find relief. You are certainly not alone – this is one of the most common surgeries in the world. Lots of people do great after their procedures. Those of us on the forums tend to have experienced complications, generally speaking.

[mitchtom6]

Wrote a lengthy response, only to have my login timed out, and the message lost.

I do not have the motivation to re type it.

Instead, I’ll just say thanks to @GoodIntentions for keeping the spotlight on this topic.

[mitchtom6]

If you get a laparoscopic mesh repair, they can do both simultaneously (as they did w/ me). But, if you want to avoid mesh, then you are looking at a pure tissue repair (i.e, Shouldice or some other technique) which is an open surgery. I am not sure if they can treat both at the same time w/ open – they may stage it so that you have two operations spaced out by a few weeks. But not 100% so someone else will need to speak to that. I would imagine that the Shouldice clinic in Canada does both at the same time, since so many of their patients have traveled there, but not 100% sure about that.

Any concerns about unsightly scarring should not even factor into your decision making criteria, in my opinion. The scar would be located in your lower abs/groin area and would not be visible to most folks.

Best of luck, newage. Give it some thought. Consider your lifestyle, etc. People on this forum will be eager to help. Hoping you find relief, and best of luck.

[mitchtom6]

Colin,

Thanks for your stories. You truly are part of a very, very small population of folks who has experienced these two different non-mesh varieties.

How would you describe your lifestyle? Do you do a lot of physical activity? I’m glad both procedures have been successful for you.

Americans are not used to looking internationally for medical care.

Take care!

[mitchtom6]

I have been doing a decent amount of rowing over the past year. I was on a rowing team in high school, so it kind of takes me back. Plus, its a smooth, predictable motion that doesn’t involve side-to-side motion or anything abrupt or jarring. As long as your settings are right, it’s not too taxing on the joints. I keep the damper at 5 or below. The first few months, I really eased into it, gradually. I try to ice my groin after doing it, too, which helps.

[mitchtom6]

Hey Dome, just read your story. It’s PG-13 but details are important in this field.

I, too, had a suspected mesh irritation about 5 years after my implant. I had been doing a lot of stair running prior to the onset of that pain.

In any case, it has been an on/off issue for me for about 2 years now. A cortisone shot brought great relief to me, and I would advise that you, at least, try that as a non-operative measure. Perhaps this will help settle things down in a semi-permanent fashion.

It sounds like you are still reasonably mobile and active despite the condition you are experiencing, I’m glad to hear.

As for me, I tried doing some “side planks” myself a few months ago, and surprisingly, they seemed to have really contributed to the pain and discomfort I had been feeling near my pubic bone. I reattempted a few times, and they continued to bother my area. So, I don’t do them anymore. In fact, any sort of “planking” seems to predispose me to irritation/pain, so I no longer do them, or pushups, since the posture is similar. I’m ok with letting go of those exercises.

Try eliminating those moves, and consider the steroid trigger point injection. In the meantime, don’t go crazy with the core stuff. A little bit is good enough.

Best of luck.

[mitchtom6]

@GoodIntentions Not to hijack the thread, but it is probably worth mentioning that Dr Meyers of the Vincera Institute only performs open surgeries, to the best of my knowledge. If your mesh implant was performed laparoscopically/robotically, I believe you would need to look elsewhere for a laparoscopic removal procedure.

• This reply was modified 3 years, 7 months ago by  mitchtom6.

[mitchtom6]

Josh,

Very sorry to hear of your situation. When your consultant said the mesh was crumpled, was that confirmed via imaging, or was that just his/her best guess as to what the issue was? i.e, has this been confirmed or is it speculative at this point?

In either case, Coritzone would be my go-to, non-operative suggestion, but it sounds like you have already tried that to no avail.

To clarify, was your mesh put in laparoscopically/robotically? Or, conversely, did you have open surgery? If it comes down to mesh removal, you will want the mesh removed via the same method in which it was placed. Make sure any surgeon you consult is aware of the method used during the implantation. I once had a surgeon want to remove my mesh via open surgery, even though it was placed laparoscopically. My second opinion was shocked to hear this and unequivocally said that was a bad idea.

Also, find a true expert in this procedure. You will most likely need to travel, and may need to pay out-of-pocket, especially if you are going to move internationally.

Hoping that you find some relief. In the meantime, if things get too bad for you, consider asking for some Cymbalta, which is an anti-depressant that can sometimes help with chronic pain. I went on it after my groin injury and it helped me to cope. I was previously opposed to those sort of drugs, but I finally gave in and it did make a difference after a few weeks.

Hoping for your full recovery.

[mitchtom6]

I am sorry you are experiencing ongoing pain after your umbilical mesh removal, and hope it resolves with time. That being said, based on your testimony, I would not quite characterize your doctor’s interactions as “scare tactics,” which imply some sort of implicit threat of some kind.

I would ask your doctor respectful but pointed questions the next time you visit. Make it concise, but say what you need to. Ultimately, you are unlikely to change a doctor’s demeanor, but perhaps you can learn his rationale. I read your previous posts. If you are, in fact, a medical student, tell the doctor. Maybe he’ll disclose a bit more at your next visit.

I’m guessing that it is common for lingering pain @ 3 months post op. Bear in mind also, insurance companies will commonly deny MRI coverage unless you’ve jumped through all of the hoops (alternate imaging like ultrasound, physical therapy, etc) so that may be factored into the equation as well. He may also be of the opinion that imaging is not necessary since he was just in there, surgically.

If it comes down to pain management, then inquire about cortisone or nerve blocks to help in the interim.

I hope that you can find the relief you need. Often, time is the best medicine. 3 months post op is still somewhat early. Take heart, and best of luck.

[mitchtom6]

It is downright baffling how the manufacturers have developed such a wide array of mesh products, each having enough similitude to existing products to be granted approval. The fact that there are 70 different products available is head spinning. I wonder how a hospital or surgeon can discern which products are suitable for their patients, given the overwhelming number of options available. My guess is that certain networks have contracts with specific suppliers, and many that many of these suppliers have products that overlap with their competitors.

[mitchtom6]

Oh yeah – one more thing. It is a shame that Dr. Belyanski is getting out of the mesh removal business. Many people sung his praises after having problematic mesh removed by his hands, and he has lots of great testimonials, and I personally visited him a few years ago when weighing my options. Yet, I know that one of the forum members (who I suspect has multiple accounts on this website) sued him after he was unable to cure his pre-existing chronic pain by removing his mesh. Perhaps that was the “straw that broke the camel’s back.” Can we expect physicians to keep practicing these sort of procedures when they stick their own necks out every time? What a lousy scenario. I don’t think there is a great answer with respect to that question.

[mitchtom6]

One of the more interesting aspects of this forum is seeing things from “both” perspectives – that of the patient, and that of the physician. There is no doubt that both parties have valid concerns and vantage points, and it is here that we can have a dialectic.

With respect to Dr. Ramshaw, I have never met the man, nor interacted with him, although I did briefly research him when considering mesh removal. Right or wrong, I crossed him off my list, partially because I found out he required patients to undergo some sort of Cognitive Brain Therapy prior to their treatment, which implied an underlying assumption that the pain was/is a mental phenomenon to some extent. Now, perhaps it is true that a positive outlook can promote healing. I had to start taking anti-depressants when I injured my groin, due to a suspected mesh irritation, which led to nearly a year of intractable pain. The meds helped me to deal with my new reality and cope with things. Yet, on the other hand, I don’t want a physician who categorically doubts the validity of his patient’s testimonies about pain.

There is nothing wrong with data analysis, and I would argue that we need more of it w/ respect to the US hernia repair industry. Yet, a mechanized and numerical approach to medicine does sound alarming and off-putting from the patient’s perspective.

Anyway, this concludes my musings for the day. My participation in this website tends to be cyclical. Right now, I’m in a down cycle, having reinjured my groin and seriously considering another cortisone injection to try to find relief, as it hurts to even walk around. Take care everyone.

[mitchtom6]

Consider traveling to Dr T’s office in Beverly Hills if you can. I believe that in-person visits qualify for insurance coverage, while many online consultations/remote readings do not.

Still, I hate to be presumptuous about people’s finances, but if your case is as dire as described, you will have to find a way. $600 is chump change against quality-of-life concerns, especially if you are only 32. You probably got several times that amount of money recently due to the stimulus payouts. Take out a loan if you must. Or setup a GoFundMe and ask for handouts. Fight for your health. Isn’t there an eviction moratorium in California right now? You can find a way. It may suck, and I, too, have evaded medical procedures due to $$$. But if your case is truly that serious, you’ll need to do it.

Best of luck. I hope you get the relief you need.