Good intentions
Forum Replies Created
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The Seri material does look interesting. I think that Dr. Brown uses silk sutures for his pure tissue repairs.
The lightweight mesh concept is an idea based on the assumption that if the mass of material is reduced that the inflammatory response will be reduced. But the body cannot “see” mass, it can only respond to surface area. Thinner filaments actually have more surface area per unit of mass. The idea was not proven through long-term studies it was authorized through the 510(k) process and immediately introduced to market as a potentially better product. Overall, it looks like an attempt to show that the pain problem was being addressed, plus an increase in market share for the company that first introduced it. The data is inconclusive as far as the claims being made. I had lightweight mesh implanted, Bard Soft Mesh, and had the typical chronic pain problems described for heavyweight mesh.
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C48&q=lightweight+hernia+mesh&btnG=
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Here is the link. I had problems posting earlier so I broke up the post.
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I have a positive story. I have linked it below.
You won’t find the medical professionals talking about mesh removal much. Mesh problems are not supposed to exist, therefore mesh removal should not be needed, is what they are all trained to believe.
Some surgeons have given up removing mesh, possibly because recovery takes so long and patients are expecting to get back the life they had before the mesh was used. Removing the mesh does not “undo” the damage, it just increases the odds of feeling better.
I had mesh removed three and a half years ago and am finally feeling like I am back to where I was six and half years ago before I had the mesh implanted. Six and a half years of dealing with a problem created by “state-of-the-art” hernia repair.
Don’t try to simplify things down to just “mesh removal” if you are having mesh problems. The variety of materials and methods used for mesh implantation and the variety of methods used for removal are very broad. You need to understand what was done to you and find the right surgeon to remove the mesh, if that is necessary. If your mesh implantation was recent you might want to wait to see if the problems resolve. Good luck.
https://herniatalk.com/forums/topic/healing-from-mesh-removal-surgery/
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I saw your post yesterday but there is really no advice, I think, that anyone could give, especially over the internet.
Hopefully, you’ve developed a solid plan while you were waiting. Good luck.
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The longer time was for laparoscopy. That’s the disingenuous part of the term “minimally invasive” used for laparoscopy. When it’s used for mesh implantation it is actually maximally invasive, compared to open implantation. More tissue is disrupted than for an open mesh implantation. The small external scars of laparoscopy hide the damage done. Internal tissues need to heal just like external tissues do.
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Removal of scar tissue is unusual. Was that done laparoscopically? That would be essentially like exploratory surgery. What was the reason for the scar tissue removal?
You didn’t define the time frames for your recent pain. How long have you had it, did it start immediately after the constipation, etc. Your last surgery was 12 years ago, but you had three separate surgeries before then. That’s a lot of surgery. A recurrence from a mesh repair after 12 years is not supposed to happen, according to the mesh proponents. 12 years is a pretty good run though, I hope they’ve been a good, pain-free, 12 years.
The first post in this Topic, below, will give you an idea of what can happen with imaging. Some doctors will see a recurrence, some will see nothing. Good luck.
Completely divergent opinions. How is this possible in this day and age?
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I had a good explantation experience, from Dr. Billing in Kirkland, Washington. But it has taken about 3 1/2 years to finally get to the point where I don’t consider how the surgery site will be affected by my planned activities for the day. It’s been a very slow process, with many points along the way where I thought progres was done. Much waiting for things to settle down before trying to expand the envelope of possible activities again.
The great shame of all of this is that the surgeons who try to help fix the problem that the original mesh implantation created end up, in some cases, taking the blame for the original problem – the mesh implantation. The problem is the mesh. All of the data shows it, the more that is collected the clearer the picture becomes. Mesh implantation is damaging a significant number of people. The root cause is the mesh, not the removal.
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The primary author is from a large laparoscopic mesh implantation center.
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The video is worth watching. It is surprising, or not, that this large group of authors, some of them representing several of the big mesh makers, combined all types of mesh materials and forms, in to “mesh”. And they did not define the method of implantation. Apparently they just see it all as essentially the same. All mesh is the same and it doesn’t matter how it is implanted.
Overall, frankly, it seems like a project simplified down to “mesh is okay”. It is very thin on useful information.
And, again, if you add up everything greater than and including “bothersome” you get about 15%. 16% to be exact.
In the end, just another report that everything is fine with mesh implantation, except watch out if you’re a young woman and avoid Surgeon A.
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I just found a video presentation about the study. Posting before I watch it.
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There are powerful financial forces supporting the use of mesh. A good open objective honest debate would probably leave most surgeons wondering why they continue to use mesh. The facts of long-term patient welfare don’t support the breadth of its use across the medical profession. Only financial reasons support it.
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If I was in your situation I would check the professional organization web sites, and the professional publications, looking for presenters/publishers in your area. You could also contact research universities directly.
Here are some starting points. It will probably be tedious. Good luck.
https://www.youtube.com/c/SAGESVideo/search?query=mesh%20removal
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C48&q=mesh+removal&btnG=
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Dr. Towfigh would probably have as much experience as anyone in your type of problem, and expected outcomes. She has published on chronic pain, and mesh removal, and has been researching mesh compatibility for many years.
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=%22s.+towfigh%22+mesh+&hl=en&as_sdt=0,48
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Here is a report about Vypro. It looks like the polyglactin degraded but instead of being absorbed by the body, was encapsulated. The mesh was likely not attached to or incorporated by the surrounding tissue and the patient had a recurrence. I am not a physician.
https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfmaude/detail.cfm?mdrfoi__id=2379741
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There are two different types of Vypro. One of them has an absorbable component, polyglactin. That might be part of the reason you felt effects immediately after implantation. The other part of the mesh is polypropylene fibers.
https://www.medicommers.hu/katalogus/134-145.pdf
Here are some examples of polyglactin hypersensitivity.
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Here is a link to Google Scholar, a source for scientific publications.
I saw one that suggested it was used in undeveloped countries because it is cheaper than mesh. There are efforts to get mesh in to the underdeveloped countries though, so the methods might die away as other suture-based methods have.
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C48&q=Moloney+Darn&btnG=
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The HerniaSurge group is no longer available to the public. But they do have a Facebook page.
They don’t really need to be active now though, because they have the European Hernia Society doing the work now. Bard and Johnson and Johnson got an excellent return on their investment. Well-done, revenues growing, stockholders happy…
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Here is a good collection of the types of mesh materials and a short history of suture material and mesh material developed for hernia repair. There is no substantive conclusion about the drawbacks or benefits but it is a thorough collection of information. I doubt that any surgeon trying to choose a mesh device would feel more comfortable about the decision after reading it. The hernia itself is a simple problem, the choice of material is chaos.
It’s from nine years ago. I don’t think things are simpler now. The search is more difficult.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1743919112000921
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Dr. Towfigh would have the real world experience and history of many examinations and the results from mesh explantation. She would have seen the patients before and after. Most of the doctors you are talking to will not have that experience and will only know what they have been trained – that mesh materials are inert in the body. I think that Dr. Towfigh’s opinion has more value than the common physician’s.
What type of mesh did you get and by what procedure? That will help determine your risk level. If you can get to South Korea then Dr. Kang at the Gibbeum Hospital would be a good choice, I think. He has done thousands of repairs and I think that he does explantations/removals as well. Good luck.
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It’s described in the thread that you posted in Ric. In the posts above yours. Yes, some people do have this pain after mesh implantation. For some it resolves over time, for others it does not.
Three weeks is still early. I don’t think that you will find a surgeon who would do any type of exploratory surgery to see what is happening. Wait and hope is the path forward. Good luck.